Smog Issue

Mbrown wrote:

paulm999 wrote:
DMV rule is (read: rule not law) that the seller is to provide a smog cert when sold. If you bought the vehicle without asking for the smog cert, you bought as-is. DMV is not going to enforce any rule after a sale. Your recourse is to fix it and smog it so you can register it. Then file a claim in small claims court against the former owner. He will argue you assumed liability for the smog when you bought it as is. It's 50/50 if a judge will act as DMV's agent and award you anything. I've bought and sold many vehicles without a smog with the understanding by both parties the sale is as-is.


BTW, What did the 87 Minnie fail in the smog test?

Running 7x too rich...New holly was put on from previous owner but not adjusted to motor..My mech said that guy must have been getting 3-4 miles a gallon :S

The new carburetor just won your case in court, and DMV and CARB will pay attention to a complaint by you about the previous owner. CA smog law (read law, not rule) states: "The manufacturer of replacement carburetors determines which of their models are considered replacements for original equipment. These replacement carburetors are then listed by vehicle year, make, model and engine size in the manufacturer's catalogue. Carburetors not listed as replacement parts by their manufacturer must have an Executive Order to be legal for street use." The previous owner is guilty of tampering with emission control devices among other things.

http://www.arb.ca.gov/msprog/aftermkt/replace.htm

Ron3rd wrote:

paulm999 wrote:

traveylin wrote:
4.20 per gallon of gas in San Mateo and you need a smog license to use the gas. At that price you think they would have added enough ethanol to make it carbon neutral. I really do not need to visit such a state of imbalance.

Pops

Excuse me, but while I agree that many parts of the smog laws are nonsense waiting to be updated and legislated out of existence as new car technology improves, CARB (CA Air Resource Board) has made life breathable in California. If you lived here in the 60s, most days in the LA basin resembled what Beijing is like now. The smell of gasoline was everywhere. Visibility was such that most people never saw the mountains 30 miles east of downtown. Life expectancy, measured in todays standards, was 12-15 years shorter than the national average. It all began with the first legislated smog control called the PCV valve, thanks in part to all the 60's Ford Falcons running around spewing clouds of blue smoke. Today, one can jog thru Griffith Park, up and down the canyon roads without dying of asphyxiation.

Amen brother; growing up in the early '60s in So Cal, I sure do remember the "bad 'ol days". Folks that didn't live through it don't have a clue and it's the reason Calif has the toughest emission standards in the country. Much cleaner air now, and there's 10 times as many cars on the road. Maybe more, but I stopped counting.

Double Amen - but the post(er) about needing a "Smog License" to purchase gas (ROTFL)- has been sniffing ethanol - or something else..:R


CA registration, smog "hint":
*If* your vehicle is in a county that does not require smog tests, it's not required.
Likewise, if you keep it at - ex: the Colorado River in Arizona, and use your 'commuter car' to and from The River.

Your vehicle is in AZ - but you *are* a CA resident, and CA wants their registration $$.
Of course, CA expects you to have it tested *when* it returns to CA.

BTW - the smog laws and new cars.
You can now go six (6) years w/o a smog test for new cars.
Owner still pays the fee - just *NO* test required.
(Slick deal ....for the *State*, huh?)
Wonderful - especially for the small business folks that invested thousands of bucks in testing equipment - (dynos aren't cheap) and were assured that cars would need a test every 2 years.

CA sold 'em down that River too!.:(


~

ol Bombero-JC wrote:

You can now go six (6) years w/o a smog test for new cars.
Owner still pays the fee - just *NO* test required.
(Slick deal ....for the *State*, huh?)
Wonderful - especially for the small business folks that invested thousands of bucks in testing equipment - (dynos aren't cheap) and were assured that cars would need a test every 2 years.

CA sold 'em down that River too!.:(


~

All new cars are exempt from testing for the first 5 years, then they get tested every 2 years - it's been that way seemingly forever. You pay a registration fee every year - that's completely separate from any smog test fees. You only pay a smog test fee when you get a smog test.

We have found on the older vehicles that are run on the rollers it makes a difference of which test center tests it. Have been told by former tester there is a certain technique that if the tester does not know or wont use the vehicle will probably fail. We had an older vehicle that failed the test, the tester actually told us "of course it failed it is old". The shop we took it to could not find anything wrong and suggested we take it to another location and we did and it passed. IMHO check out different test locations and find one that is in area with a high number of older cars in there area they probably know the technique to get it to pass.

Alan_Hepburn wrote:

ol Bombero-JC wrote:

You can now go six (6) years w/o a smog test for new cars.
Owner still pays the fee - just *NO* test required.
(Slick deal ....for the *State*, huh?)
Wonderful - especially for the small business folks that invested thousands of bucks in testing equipment - (dynos aren't cheap) and were assured that cars would need a test every 2 years.

CA sold 'em down that River too!.:(


~

All new cars are exempt from testing for the first 5 years, then they get tested every 2 years - it's been that way seemingly forever. You pay a registration fee every year - that's completely separate from any smog test fees. You only pay a smog test fee when you get a smog test.

Cars every two years but a motorhome in Arizona is every year

TyroneandGladys wrote:
Cars every two years but a motorhome in Arizona is every year

...and what does Arizona regulations have to do with someone with smog questions in San Diego?

Alan_Hepburn wrote:

ol Bombero-JC wrote:

You can now go six (6) years w/o a smog test for new cars.
Owner still pays the fee - just *NO* test required.
(Slick deal ....for the *State*, huh?)
Wonderful - especially for the small business folks that invested thousands of bucks in testing equipment - (dynos aren't cheap) and were assured that cars would need a test every 2 years.

CA sold 'em down that River too!.:(


~

All new cars are exempt from testing for the first 5 years, then they get tested every 2 years - it's been that way seemingly forever. You pay a registration fee every year - that's completely separate from any smog test fees. You only pay a smog test fee when you get a smog test.

My BIL that owns a smog test facility would be ROTFL at that.
The 5 year (which gets you 6) has *NOT* been that way "seemingly forever"..:S

My 1994 Buick (when new): - *choose* to pay an additional "fee" and you got an extra TWO years (max).

That evolved into the "first 5 years" you cite (which makes it 6).
It's included in the price you pay for the vehicle.
(CA still gets their bucks - it simply became "guaranteed" - and the test facility owners got the shaft!)

The Smog test *fee* is what the state gets for the test certificate.
Same everywhere.
The shop doing the test charges to perform the test - that's the difference in the various prices you see advertised.

And - of course...annual *REGISTRATION* fee has nothing to do with the smog test fee..:S
If a smog is required - you don't get tags.....unless you pass -or- your vehicle is exempt from testing -or- is garaged out of the test req'd areas.

CA will be happy to take your registration fee (but not issue tags) while you do necessary repairs to pass a req'd smog test.

~

I, too, grew up here in SoCal, and also remember how bad the smog was in the 60s/70s, and am thankful for the vast difference in our air quality today. However, CARB in my opinion has gotten out of control, and should be dismantled. That organization has done more in the past decade to damage the State's economy and individuals' financial well being than any other governmental organization in existence.

Consider these few items:

Item #1: The $8 smog “certificate fee” used to be charged so that the test center could print you out your certificate so you could show it to the DMV, proving the vehicle passed. Now days, that is all done electronically, instantly, over the computer, costing nothing. Yet we still get charged the same $8 “certificate fee”.

Item #2: A vehicle that is showing a check engine light computer issue WILL NOT pass the smog test, even if the actual tailpipe emissions are perfectly clean. If the point is clean air, then the tailpipe emissions should be the deciding factor, even if there is a minor issue (an undetectable miss, for example) with the tune of the vehicle. But that is not the case; it really doesn't matter how clean the tailpipe emissions are if the ECM senses a minor glitch. Completely contradictory to the goal of clean air.

Item #3: Aftermarket catalytic converters in CA have tripled in price (IF you can even find one for your model) because CARB decided that aftermarket CCs needed to be “certified” for each model individually rather than bulk certifications based on same/similar engine configurations. Aftermarket companies cannot afford the expensive certification process for every single vehicle model out there, so it takes at least a decade before they are available, if you’re lucky. I just had to replace the CC on my ’06 Tahoe. California-legal aftermarket CC is no longer available, dealer cost $1000 just for the part! A 49-state aftermarket version IS available for less than $500; Thank you, CARB!

Item #4: My son recently bought a brand new Husqvarna TE310 (dual sport). It was so de-tuned in order to meet CARB standards that, although technically “freeway legal”, it was actually dangerous to ride on the freeway, barely able to reach 60mph. Removing the smog equipment (O2 sensor, nearly completely closed “pie plate” air filter cage, throttle limiter, and a small CC insert in the headpipe) literally tripled the power on the bike, and made it not only a joy to ride, but also made it safer to ride as well. This is how the bike was designed and manufactured to run. With EFI, I do not believe that it is now “smoking out” the state.

Item #5: The “clean burning” S**T that they call gas here in CA, that we are forced to use 6 months out of the year has meant that our prices are always 25-50 cents higher than the rest of the country because of the additives and the fact that refineries have to change their formula twice a year. Additionally, a single refinery fire or maintenance issue results in an instant 25 cent jump in prices because we CAN’T import gas from any other state. You can’t store it because it goes bad in a matter of 4-6 weeks, gumming up carbs & lines. Additionally, while we have been told that it burns 10-15% cleaner, we get 20% less MPG, meaning that the end result is actually MORE tailpipe emissions. Yes, I know those numbers are true; I test it every time I go to the river, purchasing AZ gas for the ride home. 25-50 cents per gallon cheaper and 20% better MPG.

Item #6: Aftermarket carbs for older vehicles are nearly impossible to get certified by CARB, even if they are exact copies of the OEM carbs that are no longer made/available. The few that CARB does allow, are 3X more expensive (because of the certification process) and are no better or worse than those that CARB won’t certify. BTW, the fact that the previous owner put a new Holley carb on doesn't mean he did anything wrong and doesn't necessarily mean that he "won the case" for the new owner. My 88 (87 chassis) Ford has a 4-BBl Holley, stock. The question is whether or not CARB recognizes that new carb as a legitimate replacement.

CARB would love for every single vehicle in CA to be no more than 6 years old, then scrapped and replaced, and they are constantly making it more and more difficult for people to maintain & drive any vehicle that is older than that. Sorry, but I can’t afford to replace every vehicle I own that often. With 3 driving age kids, we have 5 running vehicles, not counting the MH and toys.

I could go on, but I think you get the picture as to my opinion of CARB. At this point, CARB's real purpose is to generate revenue for the state, nothing more. AFAIC, CARB (and the SCAQMD) should be dismantled, and a number of the administrators (starting at the top with Mary McNichols) should be jailed.