testing inverter output

My oldest laptop is an HP Pavilion dv7-1245dx with the Vista Operating system purchased new in 2007. Operated on and recharged many hundreds of times on one of my MSW inverters and it still has the original battery that's working just fine and so is the charger and the puter. Our HP 7 and our HP 8 and 8.1's also work fine on the MSW inverters.

Blaming the MSW inverter for your laptop failings is so misleading and a very long stretch at best. We have 6 puter systems we own and use. Usually 4 are always turned on. One desktop and 5 laptops and 4 of the are HP as is the desktop and one laptop is a Toshiba. Other than the desktop, all 5 of the others have gone in the RV's and plugged into the MSW's. We always take 3 laptops with us when we travel. Mine, the wife's, and one is a backup incase one other should crash etc. Of course, our Verizon Jetpack MIFI Hotspot too is always along as it will support up to 10 WIFI devices at the same time. Most CG WIFI really suck big time!


I don't have anything against a PSW inverter but why condem and badmouth and known MSW system that has proven to work fine for so many tens of thousands of users for over a decade or even 3 decades now? Note! They do still sell so many more new MSW inverters than the PSW inverters could every hope to as they are way overpriced (3-4 times the cost of an MSW) just to do the same task an MSW already does and has for decades now. You guys sure do humor me!!!

To the OP ...

Ignoring the feeble attempts by some to downplay the risks involved in using an MSW inverter consider this comment posted recently by forum member Naio in this discussion ...

"My two laptops charged fine on a MSW inverter... and then, a couple weeks later, one died completely and the other needed a new battery. I don't recommend risking it."

Hard as it may be for some to believe, manufacturers who design and build these inverters all recommend caution before using an MSW inverter as not all electrical devices can be safely be powered with one ... with a sine wave inverter that closely emulates shore power they can. Fact, not theory. ;)

SoundGuy wrote:

travelnutz wrote:
DSDP Don,

You are so right about thew MSW in very expensive MH's and always worked fine. WOW! How can that be??? Some know the truth of having actually used MSW inverters and a few maybe not so much as they haven't!

I'd forgoten to include the 3 MSW inverters we had in our 3 big Allegro MH's we had owned. They sure did run everything connected to them and I've never heard of a single problem with any eletronic items etc not working or being ruined with them. Yes, it was a good 10 years plus of industry wide and owners using them without issues experienced and long before PSW inverters were ever installed, used, or available.

Lets hear from the naysayers posters giving some real answers rather than just saying people who use MSW inverters don't know what they are talking about! Thousands upon thousands of real life experience with using MSW inverters already in the books and well documented but the few say these many thousands are so wrong! DUH!

No one is saying MSW inverters don't serve a purpose but rather that they do have their limitations and can damage some electrical equipment. Induction motors designed to run on sine wave, if they run at all, will run less efficiently on modified sine wave, will run hotter, and will audibly squeal ... if you're willing to put up with these deficiencies, go ahead and bury your head in the sand and pretend it doesn't matter. Manufacturers who design and build inverters do know the difference, thus offer the aforementioned warnings, and no anecdotal claims on your part to the contrary can change the science. I'd like to say "nice try" but your commentary is merely a feeble attempt to obfuscate reality by mocking those you don't agree with. As you say ... DUH! :S

To anyone else following threads like this, have decided to buy a cheaper MSW inverter regardless, and simply plug in without giving any thought at all to how that equipment may respond to a modified sine wave signal my advice is don't whine later when there's the sudden stench of burned electronics in the air. :E

SG, save the skin on your typing fingers. This is the same guy that argued with me and others that drain oil is OK to dump on the ground since there are worse sources of pollution. His style hasn't changed a bit. Innuendo and character assault are the main tools of rebuttal.

travelnutz wrote:
DSDP Don,

You are so right about thew MSW in very expensive MH's and always worked fine. WOW! How can that be??? Some know the truth of having actually used MSW inverters and a few maybe not so much as they haven't!

I'd forgoten to include the 3 MSW inverters we had in our 3 big Allegro MH's we had owned. They sure did run everything connected to them and I've never heard of a single problem with any eletronic items etc not working or being ruined with them. Yes, it was a good 10 years plus of industry wide and owners using them without issues experienced and long before PSW inverters were ever installed, used, or available.

Lets hear from the naysayers posters giving some real answers rather than just saying people who use MSW inverters don't know what they are talking about! Thousands upon thousands of real life experience with using MSW inverters already in the books and well documented but the few say these many thousands are so wrong! DUH!

No one is saying MSW inverters don't serve a purpose but rather that they do have their limitations and can damage some electrical equipment. Induction motors designed to run on sine wave, if they run at all, will run less efficiently on modified sine wave, will run hotter, and will audibly squeal ... if you're willing to put up with these deficiencies, go ahead and bury your head in the sand and pretend it doesn't matter. Manufacturers who design and build inverters do know the difference, thus offer the aforementioned warnings, and no anecdotal claims on your part to the contrary can change the science. I'd like to say "nice try" but your commentary is merely a feeble attempt to obfuscate reality by mocking those you don't agree with. As you say ... DUH! :S

To anyone else following threads like this, have decided to buy a cheaper MSW inverter regardless, and simply plug in without giving any thought at all to how that equipment may respond to a modified sine wave signal my advice is don't whine later when there's the sudden stench of burned electronics in the air. :E

DSDP Don,

You are so right about thew MSW in very expensive MH's and always worked fine. WOW! How can that be??? Some know the truth of having actually used MSW inverters and a few maybe not so much as they haven't!

I'd forgoten to include the 3 MSW inverters we had in our 3 big Allegro MH's we had owned. They sure did run everything connected to them and I've never heard of a single problem with any eletronic items etc not working or being ruined with them. Yes, it was a good 10 years plus of industry wide and owners using them without issues experienced and long before PSW inverters were ever installed, used, or available.

Lets hear from the naysayers posters giving some real answers rather than just saying people who use MSW inverters don't know what they are talking about! Thousands upon thousands of real life experience with using MSW inverters already in the books and well documented but the few say these many thousands are so wrong! DUH!

DSDP Don wrote:
First, to answer to your question, NO, there is no simple way to test how an MSW inverter will work with your equipment.

Well, actually there is - plug it in and see what happens. :E However, this "test" reminds me of Clint Eastwood's character Dirty Harry and his infamous line "Do I feel lucky? ... Well, do you punk?" ;)

I know what my choice would be. :D

Oh, to answer the O/P's question about testing the output.
First: MSW is by definition NOT CLEAN.. But

There is really only one way to test it,, A very high quality 'Scope.. This is a tool an electronics lab should have and a technician may have.

But I do not think it is how clean it is,, I think it is the MSW waveform that bothers some hardware... It fools timers.. Certain types of voltage dividers work differnetly and several other things get messed up because instead of 60 cycles there are 120 or 180 or 240 steps per second.

There is a device I used on the farm to cross a fence.. It is a pair of steps back to back so you climb up one side and down the other.. Fence is in the middle. The animals inside the pen can not climb the steps so they do not get out.

Well it is called a STILE
And another thing that carries the same name is a pile of horse dung

And those steps look exactly like a MSW inverter's output

And you can draw any inference you like from that.

For more info on everything I just said save for the waveform itself google: Citizen Blue. And read the stories that are "Hits".

the problem is $19 special that weights one pound

anything that has good transformers and filters has some weight to it

my 1250w tripp-lite powerverter weights 22#,
my old heart interface 1000w weighs about the same

PSW MSW its quality of the unit, a quality unit supplies clean power and does not harm digital electronics

First, the answer to your question, NO, there is no simple way to test how an MSW inverter will work with your equipment. As usual, there is no middle ground here. Many came on and said you can't use them with just about everything from TV's to heating blankets.

I have to agree with "travelnutz", maybe just not how he presented his response. Many coaches, especially your large DP's have had inverters as standard equipment for over 10 years. It's just been in the past few years, with the addition of residential refers and reductions in price, that PSW inverters are now being used as standard equipment.

The MSW units for the last ten years have worked well with just about everything you can plug into them. The only thing that routinely had issues were heating blankets. The only other item that I believe is often damaged by inverters are microwaves and that's mainly because of the amount of power they draw. I don't run my microwave on either MSW or PSW. If I owned a very high end unit with large battery banks and multiple large inverters, I might use a microwave then.

With all that said, if you're buying $100.00 inverters or something from Harbor Freight, you certainly might have issues, but when it comes to RV's with large quality inverters, like Xantrex or Magnum, you should be fine running almost everything you have.

travelnutz wrote:
A lot of what said about MSW inverters harming or causing failures in digital controlled inems: Heated blankets, mattress pads, heating pads, cell phone chargers, laptops and charging bricks, our JetPack WIFI charger, radios including our expensive Bose radio/CD player, TV's, microwaves, etc to name a few is pure bunk! Many of our friends having MSW inverters will tell you it's bunk also.

It sure is great to know we have "experts" here on the forum who obviously are FAR more qualified to comment on this topic than the manufacturers who actually design and build these products. :S

Earlier I linked to a Samlex webpage that cautioned use of MSW inverters with some devices, here's another contained in an Xantrex Inverter Owner's Manual that offers a similar caution.

To the OP ... none of this is a "secret" so what does common sense tell you about who / what to believe on the subject of MSW inverters and the damage they can cause when used to power certain devices? :h