Towing wreck - overloaded hitch

The FIRST question my lawyers asked was: how deep are their pockets and who is
their lawyer

Then they had home office send a resume of those lawyers

Only after they knew who they were going up against did they actually review
whether 'we' were in the right or wrong

Just because lots of folks do something does it make it okay, IMHO

Lawyers always win in the end...MONEY is all they care about...but there are ok
lawyers and know them as my in house gals and guys. Mostly IP lawyers

BUT, the lawyers for the plaintiff will only go through all that if they see deep pockets on the other side.
All that investigation costs a lot of money, and the lawyers are not going to front the expense unless they see a good ROI, preferably two fold or more.
The plaintiffs (the family members) are thinking of "justice". The lawyers who agree to represent them are thinking of profits (just like any other business). The lawyers wind up with hundreds of thousands or perhaps millions of dollars, the family(s) wind up with a few thousand (if they are lucky), and the knowledge that "Well, we taught HIM (THEM) a lesson!" They tend to forget (or not admit to themselves) that their successful lawsuit hurts their friends and neighbors, and, to a certain extent, themselves!
The lawyers win, and the insurance company(s) raise their rates to cover their losses. Insurance companies, like lawyers, always make a profit. ALWAYS!

This is in part, why cringe whenever read someone advising that it is
OK to go over the ratings...that they've been doing it with no issues
for decades/100's of thousands of miles

With 99.9 percent of trucks of all sizes out here on the road working for a living and carrying weight above the truck makers GVWR, you must cringe every time you get around one. :)

And its not just a registered weight. Hell I can register the wifes 1500 truck at 15000 lbs but what good is that. The 1500 7000 GVWR with 4000 RAWR/P tires sure can't legally carry weight above the lessor of tire load ratings/wheel load ratings or the individual axle rating.

All this stuff *WILL* be gone over with a fine toothed comb...by BOTH sides...

Lawyers on both sides will try to twist the facts to fit whatever position
they are trying to get the jury to agree with

Expert witnesses will be hired by both sides to both forensically go
over the data gathered and to hypothesize for the side that hired them
trying to convince the jury their side is right

They will actually weigh stuff and carefully note them. They will take
parts to laboratories for testing to confirm they met spec. The condition
of various systems/components will be reviewed by experts in that field.
All will be both PE's and ME's, plus whatever discipline is deemed
required or appropriate

Yes, the press will overly hype the pictures and data

This is where the OEMs shine. As they have had lawyers on the design
teams since inception...all the way to the final decisions on where the
various ratings will be listed. Why they chose those ratings and must
be backed up with real test data. What the manuals, labels and
marketing collateral will say

They will also have all of the regulatory agency certification tests
frozen and copied for both sides of the case. This includes all engineering
and ancillary design team members note books seized and copied for
both sides. Many of these will have whole pages/sections/words/etc
blacked out (actually cut out of those copies) as 'company proprietary'

'Company Proprietary' can be disclosed, but only on very, very tight
NDA's and only to certain parties. Normally 3rd parties that will then
sum it up to whomever they are sided with...but...no details

Insurance will become a HUGE factor and they all have a very, very
large staff of lawyers. Plus hired guns (attack lawyers)

Much, much, much more will be going on...and on...and on...



How do I know this?



I've been sued 4 separate times for wrongful death. My startups and
me personally (named partner, on all documentation as one or all:
designed by, drawn by, checked by, approved by)


NONE of them went to court, but the other's named on the suit's did
and two lost HUGE.

My insurance loved the level of engineering documentation and design
team documentation. Ditto the level of detail from the certification
agencies (both the agencies and the various 3rd parties we hired
to test...we were small and had no on site facilities to do those
tests)

Since I was also named as an individual in these suits...they said
they'd cover me and if they didn't, then might/will lose everything
plus jail time

Was deposed once and the other three dropped their suit against us
once they got the brunt of the documentation. That one deposition was
them trying to get me involved with the design of the mechanicals of
that accident (ski lift/gondola...we just supplied the controls and
electronics/electricals)

This is in part, why cringe whenever read someone advising that it is
OK to go over the ratings...that they've been doing it with no issues
for decades/100's of thousands of miles


{edit}...must add a ditto for those contemplating tuners. Risk is that
on 'highly integrated' systems...they touched or affected...and resultant
effect is flaky behavior of an associated system (like ABS, or Traction Control, etc)



Most will NEVER cross these bridges...but they are out there and some
other guy does cross those bridges...

proxim2020 wrote:

Turtle n Peeps wrote:
Manufactures ratings (door sticker) has no legal ramifications. It is strictly for warrantee.

While the door sticker may or may not be a indicator of absolute limits and you may not be prosecuted for exceeding them, the info on the sticker could definitely be used against you as evidence at a criminal trial or a civil suit. Willfully exceeding designed limitations won't work in your favor.

From reading another article an officer is quoted as saying, "The trailer became dislodged from the van and we don't know yet why." The hitch on the van looks like it's fully intact so it sounds like the trailer just wasn't hitched up properly. It's sad that a couple of simple safety chains could have prevented this.

I could go into court and say "he was almost over the legal limit and that is why he wrecked" and it would have as much weight as being over weight on the door sticker.

TXiceman wrote:

Turtle n Peeps wrote:
Manufactures ratings (door sticker) has no legal ramifications. It is strictly for warrantee.

And did you get this from an attorney or is it your opinion?

Ken

No attorney but the old lady is a paralegal.

Look hears the deal. Anything can be used against you. I could be way under weight, wreck and tell the cops I was sleepy and it could be used against me.

I could be way under weight and tell the cops I crossed the double line because my kid distracted me and it could be used against me.

Weight is not the end all be all that people on this forum try to make it.

Like I said, a lawyer could go into court and try and make a big deal out of the door sticker. I would go nowhere because the door sticker has no legal standing. It's only for warrantee purpose's.

Don't believe me? No big deal, I don't really care if you do or don't. :)

Turtle n Peeps wrote:
Manufactures ratings (door sticker) has no legal ramifications. It is strictly for warrantee.

While the door sticker may or may not be a indicator of absolute limits and you may not be prosecuted for exceeding them, the info on the sticker could definitely be used against you as evidence at a criminal trial or a civil suit. Willfully exceeding designed limitations won't work in your favor.

From reading another article an officer is quoted as saying, "The trailer became dislodged from the van and we don't know yet why." The hitch on the van looks like it's fully intact so it sounds like the trailer just wasn't hitched up properly. It's sad that a couple of simple safety chains could have prevented this.

TXiceman wrote:

Turtle n Peeps wrote:
Manufactures ratings (door sticker) has no legal ramifications. It is strictly for warrantee.

And did you get this from an attorney or is it your opinion?

Ken

I can only relate personal experience!
My Carry-On light utility trailer is rated by the manufacturer at, IIRC, 2900 lbs (brakes are not legally required). GVWR. I think the State licensed it for 4000 GVW.
My old Dodge CTD 3500 was licensed by the State for 14K GVW. I don't remember what Dodge said the GVWR was.
My Dodge 1500 is licensed by the state for 8000 GVW.
The flatbed car hauler I used to have was rated by the manufacturer at 7000 GVWR, but the State registered it at 8K GVW.
I have no idea what kind of ratings are used where YOU live, but here the REGISTERED GVW is the only number that is legally important!

The fact remains, at any given time there are literally thousands of vehicles on the roads around the world that are TECHNICALLY overloaded, but LEGALLY under the REGISTERED GVW, and, as I often say, "Nothing bent, nothing broke, nobody was injured or died!"
Over the past 10 years, I have heard of two trailer breakaways involving a fatality. BOTH of them were related to improper hitching AND improper safety chains AND improper braking (as in NO breakaway system as required by law!)

Turtle n Peeps wrote:
Manufactures ratings (door sticker) has no legal ramifications. It is strictly for warrantee.

And did you get this from an attorney or is it your opinion?

Ken

LarryJM wrote:
....look at what they are using as the basis for charging the legal reason for the accident "exceeding the "MANUFACTURERS RATING"". Larry

Did you just make that up? The article doesn't say anything like that.