Tragedy leads to no camping at Cottonwood, AZ Walmart

Dog Folks wrote:
Am I the only one that thinks that this particular WalMart shares, at least, some of the blame?

According to RV Newsletter: "Cottonwood WalMart officials have met with local police to "discuss solutions to extended camping" in their lot."

Extending camping? Why was WalMart allowing this in the first place?

Overnight is one thing, "extended camping" is another

They share none of the blame what-so-ever!!! Period!!! I'm sick of people making excuses for criminals. The criminal is to blame, period. I can see a billfold or a firearm or anything else in a vehicle with the window down, and never would be tempted to steal it. Only a criminal would. And yes, I kpow this wasn't about stealing, but the theory is the same. And did I say, blame the criminal not the business or another innocent person?

Am I the only one that thinks that this particular WalMart shares, at least, some of the blame?

According to RV Newsletter: "Cottonwood WalMart officials have met with local police to "discuss solutions to extended camping" in their lot."

Extending camping? Why was WalMart allowing this in the first place?

Overnight is one thing, "extended camping" is another

Deb and Ed M wrote:
There's a whole subculture of people "stealth-camping" - people who have no homes. Most are probably just down on their luck; some are excited by living off the grid; and some are up to no good (people fleeing the law, mobile meth labs or houses-of-ill-repute come to mind). I'm afraid this overnighting ban will happen more often

The thread is Shakespearian - "Much Ado About Nothing"!..:R


So.CA has the "subculture"in many areas - including residential streets in some beach areas.
It results in parking bans - which sometimes affect "legit" residents.

*MANY* Walmarts do *NOT* allow "overnighting" often for that reason.
Some that did allow "overnighting" have changed that to prohibiting same.

Some *cities* had ordinances in place - BEFORE any Walmarts were ever built. (I worked for one).

Can think of at least three more close to where I live.
Ordinances in place - well *BEFORE* Wally arrived.

Also - you will find some "subculture" RV's *day* camping in various parking lots (including Wally), then going elsewhere in the evening.

It's not limited to So. CA.
If you pull into the Wally in the Dalles, Oregon close to closing time - a manager and an employee will come out to remind you that overnighting is prohibited by city ordinance - which was instigated by the Wallmart. (Tried CGs along the C. River - all full).

Why? Small pk lot - They had long term "campers" in everything from tents to sleeping bags (no tent) on the ground during the summer months!

The mgr & employee suggested an alternate down the road a few miles. Good advice - several truckers, etc. "overnighting".

Pismo Beach, CA.
No "overnighting" - security will come along at closing time, to tell you to leave. A polite question will result in a location (about a mile away) where it's OK.
(At the time, one of the suggested alternates by security was a K-Mart, worked out fine!)

Always check with the Wally Mgr..:S
Not true. Checked with same at Pismo - mgr said, "no problem".
A couple of other RVs there also - policy "changed" at closing, LOL!

Plan ahead! - Right!..:R
But, when your best laid plans 'go awry' - and you're in a bind for a spot to "overnight" - a Wally will still be a good possibility.

However....you need a "Plan B" when it isn't..:S

(Which shouldn't be any big deal).

.

Pogoil wrote:
Note to self.

Walmart is not a camp site! Never understood it, never will.

I like to BBQ. and sit out and enjoy a cold one after a days driving.
Guess it may work for the folks who just like to pull in and close all blinds and curtains up.

Pogoil.

There is nothing to understand. It is not camping. It is over-nighting for those traveling through. The group arrested do not fall under this category and unfortunatly that is the problem. This is a family of criminals that were destined to go off regardless of where they happened to be. Do you consider all the semis parked on onramps sleeping camping?

spoon059 wrote:

1L243 wrote:

Usually there is an agreement between the property owner and the local Law Enforcement to enforce traffic violation on their property, there may even be a sign stating so. Law enforcement can enforce laws on private property. Just because your on your own property you can't sell Meth. Vagrancy laws are enforced they are just not called that anymore. Codes against Vehicle habitation and camping in or on public land can still be enforced. Private property owners can have squatters for trespassing. Refusing to leave when told to do so...

The key word you used is USUALLY... not always. Private property owners have a lot of rights. Can you cook meth on your property? NO. Can you have your meth head friends congregate on your front porch? YES.

Walmart, like any other private business, has the right to refuse service to anyone. The police do not have the right to decide who is trespassing and who is a customer. The private business has to call the police and specifically inform them who is trespassing.

The problem here are NOT the police. The problem was you have 9 animals living in the car in the parking lot with ZERO respect for common decency or decorum. If the manager didn't contact police, they have no authority to go in and kick people out of a private business anymore than they have the authority to wander up to your house party and kick people off your lawn (providing you weren't acting in a disorderly manner that affected someone else's constitutional rights).

I did not say the problem was with the police. The problem is always with the one who is causing the problems.

Your right the police will not enforce unless there is an aggreement between the property owner and law enforcement in advance. Example: If Wal Mart in writing gives the police the authority to ask overnight campers to leave the property they can do so, they don't need to contact management. The police will knock on your door and ask you to leave. If a particular person or persons is causing a disturbance, the property owner in the presence of the police informs the tresspasser he has to leave, if he does not, they can be arrested...

Your never going to be able to control the animals that's why we have cages and zoo keepers...

joanne0012 wrote:
Doeesn't this fall under the phrase grandma used to use about "locking the barn door after the horse is stolen"?

Yes, and punishing the innocent.

1L243 wrote:

Usually there is an agreement between the property owner and the local Law Enforcement to enforce traffic violation on their property, there may even be a sign stating so. Law enforcement can enforce laws on private property. Just because your on your own property you can't sell Meth. Vagrancy laws are enforced they are just not called that anymore. Codes against Vehicle habitation and camping in or on public land can still be enforced. Private property owners can have squatters for trespassing. Refusing to leave when told to do so...

The key word you used is USUALLY... not always. Private property owners have a lot of rights. Can you cook meth on your property? NO. Can you have your meth head friends congregate on your front porch? YES.

Walmart, like any other private business, has the right to refuse service to anyone. The police do not have the right to decide who is trespassing and who is a customer. The private business has to call the police and specifically inform them who is trespassing.

The problem here are NOT the police. The problem was you have 9 animals living in the car in the parking lot with ZERO respect for common decency or decorum. If the manager didn't contact police, they have no authority to go in and kick people out of a private business anymore than they have the authority to wander up to your house party and kick people off your lawn (providing you weren't acting in a disorderly manner that affected someone else's constitutional rights).

When I have used Wall Mart I was rolling in late or there was nothing else available. Your not going to be setting up the BBQ and you will be getting out early... Paying a RV spot $40 for that seems like a waste to me..

Usually there is an agreement between the property owner and the local Law Enforcement to enforce traffic violation on their property, there may even be a sign stating so. Law enforcement can enforce laws on private property. Just because your on your own property you can't sell Meth. Vagrancy laws are enforced they are just not called that anymore. Codes against Vehicle habitation and camping in or on public land can still be enforced. Private property owners can have squatters for trespassing. Refusing to leave when told to do so...

The tragedy (if you want to call it that) was nine people of that disposition living in a suburban in a parking lot
One of them instigated the incident by attacking the Wal-Mart employee, that two of them ended up shot by the police is not the tragedy, the fact that one of them is a juvenile and has little or no control of the situation, is a tragedy, the adults brought the situation on

I have over nighted in truck stops, and in rest areas, even restaurant parking lots, the only reason I have not been in a Wal-Mart lot, is I didn't know it was there, drove past the exit ramp at the wrong time of day or night, wasn't stopping yet.

Note to self.

Walmart is not a camp site! Never understood it, never will.

I like to BBQ. and sit out and enjoy a cold one after a days driving.
Guess it may work for the folks who just like to pull in and close all blinds and curtains up.

Pogoil.