Use of LiFePo4 batteries in RV?

Hi Tpi,

When I was part time, 256 watts provided for almost all my needs, but now that I am full time it doesn't come close.

While it is noble to wish to reduce demands, I'd prefer to be able to run everything (including air conditioning) from solar and the battery bank. I think I have the roof space for panels to do so, but storage for that energy is a problem.

I keep hoping for a viable flexible panel that would double as an awning.

Many many RVs are used exclusively for full hookup camping and the battery is just serving as enroute power. As Tatest points out many RVs are used only occasionally and sit for months in storage lots. Not really a good market for high tech high cost batteries.

Someone like myself would appreciate them if they were a reliable and somewhat reasonably priced package. Downside would be our charging systems would have to be upgraded.

I use a couple AGM batteries rated at 300 AH. They work fine, the space is allotted. My goal, rather than increasing capacity is to cut demand. With newer LED TVs, computer screens, LED lighting, and the great reduction of solar cost we can take these amp hours much further. There are many very good inexpensive strategies to improve the 12 volt systems for people like myself who use it frequently.

VTR wrote:
this is a ways off to become viable for everyone. I fly droids, and I love to read about it, but a long way off for the common man.

I've thought about making a Motorola smart phone (droid) fly too. (Bet you meant "drones".... :) )

I looked into buying these batteries... They're getting easier to find at least, but at $1k each they're not very practical yet. I'd love the weight savings though.

Dear all,

Thank you very much for your interesting comments.

dons2346, I actually know AM Solar batteries, but again it's kind of DIY battery pack since they do not provide a full system which allow you to just plug your devices to it and have you install additional electric devices to control it.

To give your a better idea, here's what I was thinking about:

http://www.eza.fr/en/index.html

You obviously have the cells inside, but you also have a power connector to plug electric devices, a MPPT solar controller, a secured input/output, dedicated to the 230 / 12V load.

As mentioned with this kind of device you do not need complex extra controllers.

I found an american company which seems to offer the same kind of product, Dragon Fly. It looks like a

tatest, your comment about the battery pack usage is actually interesting because i was wondering if this kind of products was going to be needed if the RV do not really travel that much. The big advantage is that you can actually unplug it and wire a regular FLA when you sell the RV.
Do you think a $2,000,000 motorcoach would actually need the extra autonomy needed by this technology? i tend to imagine that the high-end RV are not really made and used to be remote during a long period of time.

I actually never heard of the fire issue in the past and looked at the Uk forum, it seems pretty scary...Even if you can also have this problem with lead acid batteries.

Rechargable Lithium technologies are being used OEM in the premium market RV and travel coach industries, but I've not yet seen drop-in replacements, so conversion tends to be a DIY project, often combined with solar.

Most of the RV market is extremely sensitive to up-front cost, rather than life cycle cost. So much so that customers won't even pay for the extra cost of AGMs to reduce their early failures from lack of maintenance, nor will they buy the RV with the smart three stage charger if the one with the single voltage converter charger is a few hundred dollars cheaper. RV buyers are generally ignorant about systems, but will go for buzzwords like "vacuum bonded" or "covered underbelly" and nice looking countertops.

I think systems with better long-term costs, if they have high upfront costs, might sell into market segments that will buy premium, and where the RVs have extensive use. There is a small market for motorcoaches in the $500,000 to $4,000,000 range, where the cost of such systems just kind of gets lost, or at the upper end, one more thing to brag about. Even in that market, stored electrical power is not always a big issue when generators are running full time. For boon-dockers, it is, but we would have to look at the intersection of those two sets, premium price buyers and off-the grid users who don't want to burn fuel.

Then there is the question of life cycle costs for something that doesn't really get used. 2000 charge cycles vs 500 charge cycles does not mean much to that big segment of the market that uses their RV for two weeks once a year, letting it set in storage 50 weeks a year, then selling it at 3-5 years because they don't use it or have "outgrown" it now that it is paid for. The battery bank might be charged and then partially discharged 10-20 times during the ownership of by the first buyer.

Liberty Coach has been using Lithium batteries for awhile as house batteries. At the Prevost Stuff show in Tampa I talked for awhile with the folks from Volta. The make a configurable Lithium Battery system for RV's that is stable. You just plug in the the number of battery cells you need for the job. The founder as I recall came from Johnson Controls. They also make and sell a 48 volt alternator for charging the batteries and a DC/DC converter for converting the 48V to other system voltages.

I was very impressed with the power density of their systems. I understand the pricing is prohibitive for all but a few applications. If the pricing came down I would love to give it a try.

Hi,

The real fly in the ointment for me is that none of the available LI chemistries can be charged when the battery bank is in below freezing temperatures. You can draw from the well--but not replenish it.

Right now it would be cheaper for me to go to LI than to use AGM.

At the Louisville Good Sam Rally a couple of years ago there was a vender selling Lithium batteries for RVs. I don't remember the type of Lithium or the vender's name. I do remember that the cost was away out of my league.

The batteries sounded great, I am sure that someday they will become mainstream for RVs.

Three days ago I received a photo from my buddy showing what happened to one of his LiPo batteries while charging. I realize LiFePo4 consists of different materials than the LiPo batteries. The battery caught fire, he said the fire was about 2ft high when he used his fire extinguisher to put it out.

I did some checking and there are some reports of fire with the LiFePo batteries. Here's one http://www.batteryvehiclesociety.org.uk/forums/viewtopic.php?t=1825

That would be a sad way to lose an RV or family member.

this is a ways off to become viable for everyone. I fly droids, and I love to read about it, but a long way off for the common man.