Using ethanol free gas.

The other day I just bought some alcohol free gas for the lawn mower, and it cost me $1.80 a gallon more than I could get the mixed garbage for. Can't afford to get that for my car.

Mike

I lose .5 mpg with ethanol blended fuel. Whenever I go to WI and I see it available I always fill up with straight gasoline. The V-10 runs cooler and has more power with straight gas.

JaxDad wrote:

Turtle n Peeps wrote:
E free gas will give you about 4 to 5% difference in mileage.

If anybody tells you appreciably more their math is wrong or their testing is flawed.

E gas will always give you more power because of the O2 and cooling effect it give your engine.

If you only drive your vehicle in a laboratory that MIGHT be true, however in the real world we have to deal with water-entrainment, sensors thrown off by water, phase separation and the further increased inefficiencies after phase separation occurs.

Even the EPA has acknowledged that E10 gasoline can (at 70 deg. F.) hold 50 times the water in solution than E0 gasoline can. At just 0.5% water-entrainment phase separation begins.

Bottom line, you cannot lose just 4% or 5% in mileage when you have nearly that much water in your tank.

Sure you can.

Water has 0 calories in it. If you have 0 calories in water and you have 1/2 percent water in your fuel you will lose 1/2 percent in mileage. The math really is that simple. On a side note, very small amounts of water going through an engine is not a huge problem anyway. In fact, it can give some help with octane requirements. Ever hear of water injection? Although I don't necessarily want water in my fuel, water injection and it's affects are a very good thing.

Another side benefit of having small amounts of alkie in your gasoline is water. If you have pure gasoline and you pick up a few ounces of water that water will always be separate from the gasoline and if sucked into your fuel system you will be dead on the road. Not so with E fuel. With E10 it will be incorporated with the gasoline and be run through the fuel system and burned in the engine without any problems.

As far as mileage goes: California has had E10 since the mid 80's. I had a friend that insisted he lost more than 10% mileage when it came out way back when. I asked him what happened to the BTU's of the alkie? All I got was a blank stare. :R My point to him was when you put 10% ethanol in gasoline you don't have 10% less BTU's or 10% less mileage because the BTU's in the alkie just does not disappear.

Phase separation has never been a problem for me (or anybody else that I can tell). I have never heard any huge talk about it on the forums that I go on. In fact, phase separation is a non issue unless you live in - degree weather and keep your gas in your tank for a VERY long time. A lot of racers use E85 and if it was a problem everybody would know about it.

Bottom line is I'm not a fan of E fuels at all. But they are here to stay whether you or me or anybody else likes them or not. And at 10% they do a great job of cleaning up our air. So that's not a bad deal at all IMHO.

Three Ethanol Myths Clarified.

removed

Wish I could find 100% ethanol Free.

Turtle n Peeps,

Have to disagree with you. On all of our vehicles, I've noticed about a 10% decrease in real world mpg.

On one trip down south in the motorhome, I didn't realize I had filled up with real gas down south. I thought everything was E10 like good ol' New England. Anyway, shortly after we hit the road, I noticed the instantaneous mpg readout on my scan gauge was dancing around 7.9 mpg. Usually, on the ethanol junk, it had been around 7.1. The average MPG displays were up by a similar amount. I thought...hmmmmm...must be going down hill, though I didn't detect and incline. Looked at the altitude reading on the GPS, and we were actually very slightly increasing altitude.

When we first got the motorhome, it was averaging about high 7's to low 8's for mpg. Once the E10 became all we could get, that range dropped to high 6's to low 7's.

I know what the math numbers (and the government) say, but every one of my vehicles disagrees with those numbers. A 10% decrease is what I observe.

What you said about the water in the tank is true. Here, up north, in the winter months, we would add some "Dry Gas" (alcohol) to the tank periodically so that any water in the fuel tank would be absorbed and burned. Water in the fuel line could freeze, block the flow of gas and that's where you'd stay until it thawed out. In my opinion, the ONLY benefit of E10 is that Dry Gas is no longer needed. Funny thing, though, the auto stores still sell it! LOL

Sure wish we could get real gas again.

~Rick

Oldme wrote:
Wish I could find 100% ethanol Free.

the free app called "Pure Gas" shows moonshine free gas all over the country

works great and it is FREE!!

non ethanol gas and a mix of seafoam of 1 0z per gallon sure works great for my small gas engines. I had to mow our lawn yesterday for the first time in 2 years and one pull and the engine was running.

chevman

Rick, that's fine.

One thing you have to be careful of is unscrupulous fuel dealers. It was touched on in an above post.

Some of the fuel dealers will add more alkie than 10%. This has been done in the past and weights and measure has been catching these people doing this.

If you suspect your getting lower MPG than you should I would suggest you talk to your local weights and measure people. I work just down the hall from these people in the same building and have used their services once. Your fuel dealer may be putting more alkie in the mix to make a bigger profit. :M

Once I though I was getting screwed on octane. W&M immediately pulled a sample and checked it. It was too spec.

The guy that runs the department just told me in the 13 years he has worked for W&M they only caught one sample that was low on octane. I don't know if they check for alkie content?

Maybe something to check into if you're getting much below 4 to 5% in fuel mileage with E10?

larry barnhart wrote:
non ethanol gas and a mix of seafoam of 1 0z per gallon sure works great for my small gas engines. I had to mow our lawn yesterday for the first time in 2 years and one pull and the engine was running.

chevman

This is exactly what I run in all my small engines. Some of my small motors have sat for 2 years and start right up.

In the Blazer where it does not sit I run the cheaper e-10.