Where to Buy a truck without Binding Aributration

WyoTraveler wrote:
If it was a clause in the contract and you agreed on everything else just draw a line through it, ask them to initial and date. You initial and date. If they say no just get up and walk. If they are so dishonest they won't scratch the clause the right thing to do is walk.

This is a good idea and you are correct that this will take care of the issue, But no one is allowed to modify those contracts, certainly not a Salesman or the Sales Manager. They will let you walk as will every other dealer.

I also believe that you can fight binding arbitration clauses if you have a good case or if you can give prima facie proof that the dealer broke the contract.

My understanding is that so called "Binding" arbitration clauses are not legal in all states, however in those cases "Arbitration" is called for. But all you have to do in those cases is refuse the offer and simply state your intention to go to court. This I have done and won.

Thirdly if you can show that the party doing the arbitration is not completely independent of the dealership or its interests or is any way a creature of the Dealers Association you can get that clause struck by the court and pursue your case.

This is not a black or white issue that always works against you.

This topic is laden with a bunch of horsefeathers.

It's pretty simple: to buy a car, receive a credit card, undertake an innumerable number of other commercial activities, one must accept binding arbitration.

Don't want to accept it? Fine. Go buy a used car from a private party.

...but don't assert that binding arbitration is "breaking the law" or "giving up your rights".....by signing that sales agreement, the purchase AGREED to binding arbitration. If the purchaser didn't read the fine print, how is that characterized as "giving up your rights"?

All of that being said, when I was active in the game, we always recommended that commercial contracts use mediation followed by litigation as the dispute resolution mechanism. Arbitration is a bit of the worst of both worlds: lacking many of the procedural protections and settled law aspects of litigation while having expense and time costs far in excess of informal dispute resolution.

Chris Bryant wrote:
Binding arbitration is a method business uses to legally break the law. Often the result includes a gag order, so you cannot even spread the word.

Third page, until something useful appears. Binding arbitration is used by corporate America to deprive you of your right to due process after they have screwed you. You are not going to just scratch I out of a contract drafted by a multi-billion dollar corporation. If it's required by a product manufacturer, I doubt crossing state lines will free you of it, but I'm no expert, so who knows.

I one spent two year assisting in the preparation of a arbitration case, then spent five days on the stand testifying. In the end the victim was robbed of three million in damages, the perpetrator was free to continue screwing their clients, with not even the tiniest of blemishes on their record, and both legal teams split over $900K in fees, paid by the victim. One you face arbitration, it's best to resign yourself to the fact that you are going to be screwed, it's how the system operates.

If anybody is interested, do a google search for a recent New York Times series on the subject.

Binding arbitration is a method business uses to legally break the law. Often the result includes a gag order, so you cannot even spread the word.

SolidAxleDurango wrote:

WyoTraveler wrote:
If it was a clause in the contract and you agreed on everything else just draw a line through it, ask them to initial and date. You initial and date. If they say no just get up and walk. If they are so dishonest they won't scratch the clause the right thing to do is walk.

Haha... yeah... ok

I can't remember how many times I have walked. I make a take it leave it offers. Some times after the deal is closed I tell my DW I never thought he would accept the deal. She always say yes but they really want to throw you out the door before they accept the deal. Yup, you just can't insult a sales person too much. They take ego building classes. :B

I am amazed reading this thread how many people do not realize that almost every thing today has fine print that you cannot sue and are bound by binding arbitration. Check your credit cards and just about every thing else.

There appears to be some reversal of this slippery tactic running through many State governments now. I personally have returned two credit cards to the issuer because of this hidden language.

This is a classic case of what political PAC's have been able to accomplish through your friendly congressman.

It appears that a lot of people are not reading the contracts they are signing. :B They are pretty common in both sale and service contracts. From The Ohio Bar Association:

Understanding Mandatory Binding Arbitration in Consumer Contracts

"If you have a national bank-issued credit card, a cell phone services contract, or you have borrowed from a payday or auto title lender, purchased a new or used car, or signed a home improvement contract, your contracts may contain binding arbitration clauses.

Q: What is a binding arbitration clause?
A: Arbitration refers to an agreement between disputing parties to let an outside party resolve the dispute instead of using the court system. When the parties agree to follow the arbitrator’s decision, the arbitration becomes “binding.” When you sign a contract with a binding arbitration clause, you are agreeing to use arbitration to settle any disputes that may arise. You give up certain rights when you sign contracts with binding arbitration clauses."

Thanks for the feedback. Apparently it's just another scam to rip off the customer.
It's good to know.

Can that be a little fine print clause in the Sale sheet? I never heard of such a thing?

This aroused my interest; some searching yielded some information. One of which is
http://www.autoissues.org/arbitration.htm

In ontario canada, it is called CAMVAP (http://www.camvap.ca/arbitration/agreement/

Whether the dealer uses it or not, it is required to be clearly stated in the OMVIC sales agreement:
One of these two CAMVAP Statements in large bold print:
If CAMVAP is available:
CANADIAN MOTOR VEHICLE ARBITRATION PLAN The Canadian Motor Vehicle Arbitration Plan may be available to resolve disputes concerning alleged manufacturer’s defects or implementation of the manufacturer’s new motor vehicle warranty.
If CAMVAP is NOT available:
CANADIAN MOTOR VEHICLE ARBITRATION PLAN NOT AVAILABLE

source:https://www.omvic.on.ca/portal/DealersSalespersons/MVDARequirements/Contracts/ContractforSaleofaNewVehicle.aspx