Why do I need WD?

Barney:
Sorry for the confusion. It's a Reese 2.5" Class V. Bought in the late 90's. It appears that my 12k may have been wrong. It looks to be rated to 20k lbs according Reese website, but that is for a new version (maybe different, maybe not). It clearly says Reese Class V on the receiver, but I can no longer find/read the numbers. Maybe a pressure washing would help, but I really don't care that much. I know it's strong enough.

Ron:
I saw no need for the WD Hitch, as I have been hauling a 10k lb cargo trailer (car hauler) for years without one (and without a single problem in over 100k towed miles); however, as soon as I began Rv'ing I've had two separate people (at State Parks) offering their unsolicited warnings about towing a TT without a WD hitch.

This was the entire subject of my post. I saw no need, but with people coming to warn about it, I thought maybe I was missing something. I am new to the RV world.

OP,
Sounds to me like you do not have a class V hitch but instead have a normal class IV. That V-5 designation on the hitch is not the class but instesd is the government document standard that it meets. You said your hich is old and is rated for 12,000lbs. That is the typical number for an older class IV hich which usually had a wd rating of 1200lb tongue weight using WD and only 500-650lbs weight carrying.
Perhaps you put on an aftermarket hitch?

Take a look at my post Here.
Barney

cwboyscooby wrote:
---I was just wondering why so many people think they need WD hitches on a TT when a cargo trailer of the same size and weight would not.---

Are you saying that, while a TT of given size and weight might require a WDH, a cargo trailer of same size and weight would not?

If so, could you please explain why?

Ron

I guess I opened a can of worms here. It wasn't really my intention.

I actually have a WD hitch sitting in my garage that came with the trailer. The previous owner pulled it with an Expedition, and if I were doing the same I would use the hitch.

My receiver is old and I cannot find the numbers on it, but It's a Class V, so I really doubt that it's overloaded at 800-1200lbs.

I should have never said I had "sway" issues in heavy wind, it was really just the wind pushing the trailer to the side. There was no fishtail and the wind gusts were in excess of 60mph.

I know trucks, engines, brakes, everything mechanical. I've done plenty of towing over the years including BP, GN, and FW. I am just new to the world of travel trailers. I was just wondering why so many people think they need WD hitches on a TT when a cargo trailer of the same size and weight would not. I assumed I was missing something somewhere.

I'm sure I'll be driving down the highway tonight and see one of you guys with a WD hitch on their F-550 pulling a jet ski. More power to you.

#1. It's VERY important to have as level of a TV and trailer as you can get while towing. This will prevent the trailer from lifting the front of the TV or dropping the front of the TV under hard braking.

Turtle,

Thanks. I did not want to get into this as it is not so much about WD as it is about loading but since you mentioned it I will share an experience I had about level trailers that are tandem or triple axles. Single axle trailers are perhaps slightly different in function but my tandem axle trailer has an interesting characteristic that I think is found on most tandem and triple axle trailers also. I changed out the cheap OEM bushings with wet bolts and the cheap equalizer between the axles with the Dexter EZ flex and weighed the axles. To no surprise one side of the axle is heavier than the other, usually the refer side or the slide out side. But what did surprise me was that one axle carried more load than the other even with the axle equalizers. Then I played around with the tongue position -- level, up an inch or so and then down an inch or so and watched the axle weights change even with the equalizer. To me this means that the equalizer does not really work that good and further that some tires are carrying more weight than others. This concerns me since even level the axles are not the same weight. But, the bigger issue is the tires. On mine the tires are rated for the load at what I consider 'just barely able' and to have one axle carrying more weight due to non level towing (or any other reason) can stress out the tires on the heavier axle and cause problems. Folks that are anal about tire pressures and wear probably never think about how much weight each tire is carrying both from a side to side axle issue as well as the axle itself not carrying equal weights. I don't think it would be easy to find the place where both axles carry the exact same weight but the tongue position sure changes the axle loading and I decided all the 'tow with the tongue slightly low' koolaid that has been spouted on these forums are from folks that never actually weighed their axles, and then what each tire on the axle is carrying. If they did they would quickly find a small change in tongue height makes a measurable change in axle loading.

It is no wonder anymore (at least with me) that tires fail, we blame the Chinese sometimes but what RVer really knows what each tire is carrying and if it is over the rated tire capacity? Then we blame the tire manufacturer for junk tires. Second, the trailer is often set up at the dealer with nothing in it, no water or stuff or supplies. Then the new owner goes home loads up all the stuff and water and hits the road. And the hitch is no longer correctly adjusted as it was never set up for a fully loaded trailer. Dealers would do the customers a big favor if they asked the customer to return when the trailer was fully loaded for camping for a hitch re-adjust. No wonder some have handling and tire problems.

A 7500 pound gross weight trailer with two 3500 pound axles is crazy. The tongue has to carry some weight or the trailer is over gross for the axles. And then four 1820 pound capacity tires carrying the load. There is almost no margin for one axle or tire carrying more than the others without something being over capacity.

jmtandem wrote:
I suspect that is one reason that WD is not recommended as well as the fact that the front axles are very heavy on most pickups empty. And the trucks are designed to carry the load in the rear --loading the rear axle. I speak from experience as I have experimented with WD and just towing on the ball and there is no difference, in fact it handles slightly better on the ball because it is loading the rear axle. The think that the only thing a WD hitch will help with in braking is that about 20 percent of the redistributed tongue weight using WD is added to the trailer axles and that weight could add some traction to the tires when braking. I suspect it is a minimal value and depends on the tires, brakes, and pavement conditions how much it really helps. If the trailer is towed level there is no nose dive even if the trailer brakes do not lead the tow vehicle's brakes.

This is exactly the point I was trying to make. Trucks are always nose heavy. Diesel trucks like mine are REALLY nose heavy. Manufactures can only hit a happy medium with weight bias when building them. Much like toy haulers the manufacture does not know how much weight any truck is going to carry at any point in time. If they build a 50/50 truck then when someone put a ton of weight in the back, things are really going to get ugly for the manufacture just like it did with the Corvair.

I have a 2500 diesel truck and tow a relatively light trailer for my truck. The last thing I want to do is transfer more weight to the front of the truck. It's got a ton of it there already. The more weight up front the more the TV wants to nose dive during hard braking because it wants to crush the suspension.

With all this said, I agree with everything jmtandem has said. But he makes two very important remarks:

#1. It's VERY important to have as level of a TV and trailer as you can get while towing. This will prevent the trailer from lifting the front of the TV or dropping the front of the TV under hard braking.

#2. Have some good trailer brakes on the trailer. Good trailer brakes will keep the "snake straight." The more lead you have on the trailer brakes the better it will keep everything in line in a panic stop.

I too am not against any WD. When I towed with a 1/2 ton pickup it was very important to keep the rear of the truck from sagging too much. Worked GREAT and I loaded it hard because of the pickup I had at the time. I have a heavy diesel now and there is just no reason to transfer any weight with "MY" setup.

WyoTraveler wrote:

TomG2 wrote:
Times have changed. Information from receiver and owner's manual for Silverado:

"2500/3500 Long Box
Weight Carrying or
Weight Distributing
907 kg (2,000 lb)"

I am not saying that GM is correct, but they probably have as much at stake as any anonymous Internet expert.

You are exactly right. Using WD tongue weight is 2000 pounds. Without it only 600. You are stressing the hitch. If you are not going to use WD. I would buy a class 5 hitch. Without WD you can go to 1500 pounds.

The receiver/hitch on my 2013 Silverado is good for 2000 pounds with or without a weight distributing hitch. Where do you come up with 600 pounds out of that? There is no such number on the hitch, in the manual, or anywhere else. The word "or" is what to look for. Look it up.

I am not an engineer but that has NOT been my experience at all. I think the reason is that the center of mass is higher than the axles and that causes the trailer ( or car for that matter) to nose dive on braking. Every vehicle I have been in or owned did a nose dive, at least a little bit, when the brakes are applied.
If that nose dive occurs when going down a hill, on a curve, towing a trailer, then the results can be less than desired!
Barney

Barney,

This thread is about towing with a one ton, a payload around or more than 4000 pounds. And a tongue weight that is relatively low since the trailer is mid size. It is not about towing with a station wagon or a light duty truck or towing a 13,000 Weekend Warrior tow behind toy hauler. Any nose dive of the trailer would be countered by the springs on the one ton; that still has about three fourths of it's available payload available. And that momentary increase certainly should not cause the one ton to be overloaded or go out of control. Maybe a light duty half ton or a station wagon towing too much trailer, but certainly not a one ton truck. And then the truck would nose dive a little stopping and that would tend to raise the rear of the truck at the receiver that counters any nose diving that the trailer might be trying to do. If the nose of the truck goes down a little braking hard the rear goes up and as the rear goes up it tends to raise the trailer tongue (not lower it) and if the trailer is trying to nose dive then it trys to lower the tongue and also the rear of the truck that is being raised by the tow vehicle. On dry pavement, properly loaded, good brakes and tires I just don't see how this is an issue on a one ton truck. Sway is far more a concern if the trailer decides to begin to jackknief especially if the truck is stopping in a curve and critically if going downhill and stopping hard in a curve. Again, if the trailer brakes lead the TV brakes in stopping, the trailer (at least in theory) is stopping harder and faster than the TV and that should keep everything in line. I think accidents occur when the TV and TT are not matched properly, poor braking on the trailer, driver inattention until too late, poor road surface, improper trailer loading, etc. Just getting hard on the brakes should not get anybody into an accident towing. Something else has to be going on as well and it most likely becomes a chain of events that leads up to an accident.

Towing without trailer brakes the trailer then becomes a huge liability on the TV stopping hard. Even without TT brakes the TT can still stop straight but it is a huge burden on the TV brakes. I have a friend that lost his brakes on the TT coming down a long hill and had to stop at the traffic light at the bottom. (I live in an area where the grades are six or eight (sometimes more) percent for eight or more miles long. This grade was in the eight percent category and several miles long. On his Dodge Ram he was able to stop the whole rig but it cost him a brake job at the dealers on the Ram, one hard stop without trailer brakes. He was towing heavy, more than 12,000 pounds. Smoke everywhere, while knuckle all the time hoping it would stop in time, etc.

I suspect you tow safe and your thread reference just shows that we need to be careful and pay attention and have a properly set up rig making sure everything is just right. Diesel exhaust brakes really help. They are a safety feature. So does down shifting on grades and not relying so much on the service brakes.

I am certainly not against WD where it is needed on light duty vehicles but this thread is about a one ton truck towing a relatively light trailer. I am sure GM and Ford have done extensive testing stopping hard while towing and if they decide the WD is not necessary or not as necessary as prior, who are we the users of the product to disagree?

TomG2 wrote:
Times have changed. Information from receiver and owner's manual for Silverado:

"2500/3500 Long Box
Weight Carrying or
Weight Distributing
907 kg (2,000 lb)"

I am not saying that GM is correct, but they probably have as much at stake as any anonymous Internet expert.

You are exactly right. Using WD tongue weight is 2000 pounds. Without it only 600. You are stressing the hitch. If you are not going to use WD. I would buy a class 5 hitch. Without WD you can go to 1500 pounds.

Turtle n Peeps wrote:
Long story short; you don't.

For some reason RV'er freak about this WD deal. Why? I have no idea?

As far as light steering that is pretty much garbage. If anyone has a set of race scales and puts a truck on them they will find out in short order that a truck is tail light; VERY tail light. A diesel truck is worse.

There is a reason a good handling race car has a 50/50 front to rear weight bias.

All that said, I have a WD on my TT. I snap the chains up just snug. I don't want to transfer any weight with my setup. I just want to take as much porpoising out of it I can. I works fine.

What Turtle n Peeps said about porpoising. Our tow vehicle is kind of outdated now (2006) but one of it's trailers is a light tandem cargo trailer. Towing it on a plain drawbar is nowhere near the max tongue load of the truck. I use an old school WD hitch with the "L" bars and chains and just snug up the bars and the ride is much improved.