Wiring from RV 7 way to Toad vehicles existing lights?

David, Lets see if I've got this right, your RV has only red lights, the brake light/turn signal filament, and the taillight filament in the same bulb. Correct so far?

Your towed has a single filament brake light bulb. Correct here too?

And the amber light has a filament for the turn signal and one for the tail lights, correct?

Now, lets imagine what would happen if you connected the left brake/turn signal wire from the RV to the left brake light wire for the towed and you installed a blocking diode in the line between that connection and the towed wiring. Now the power from the RV cannot flow into the towed or to the right side brake light.

Now you have a power source for the left brake and turn signal coming to your towed. If you step on the RV brakes the brake light on the towed comes on, so far so good. Now you turn on the RV's left turn signal and the towed's brake light is now your towed's left turn light. Nothing in the MVC says that it has to be the yellow light on the towed.

Now do the same thing to the right side. Disconnect the cable from the RV to the towed and everything works normally in the towed. Simple right?

There is absolutely no reason to buy and install the single lamp to dual lamp converter.

Now all you have to do is connect the parking light wire from the cable to the parking light circuit of the towed with the appropriate blocking diode and you're legally wired to tow.

FIRE UP wrote:

Bird Freak wrote:
last 4 toads I wired I just installed another bulb in each taillight and ran the wires straight to them. Never touched vehicle wiring.

Many folks do it this way. But, one of the main problems I see in wiring a toads tail lights this way is this. About 99.9% of the time, when a second bulb is added to the same tail light housing, it's ultra close to the original bulb. And, in the same percentage, there is no partition in between the two bulbs. And, if one has an auxiliary braking system, i.e. Ready Brake, Even Brake, Brake Buddy, and any other system that actually pushes on the brake pedal, then in a very, very large percentage of the toads out there, the brake lights are activated when the brake pedal pushed.

So, here's the potential scenario. You're all hooked up and towing down the road. You're approaching a turn and, you need to slow down. You apply the turn signal in the coach which, in turn, applies it to the additional bulb that's been installed in the toad. It's flashing, as it should be. But, you now apply the brakes in the coach. That, in turn, applies the brakes in the toad too, due to the auxiliary braking system installed in the toad.

If the toad is the same as approximately 90% or more out there in toad land, that auxiliary brake will activate the toads brake lights, correct?

So now, you've got a flashing bulb, most of the time, within approximately 1/2" to 1" away from a full brightness brake light bulb, with no partition between the two. What is a person following the toad, supposed to see?

Now, conditions will vary. One, the toad is one of the ones in the very small percentage that DOES NOT ACTIVATE THE BRAKE LIGHTS when the brake pedal is applied and, the key is in the off position.

Two, there is an actual partition in between the two bulbs.

Three, one is aware of the potential "dual bulb" conflict and, has remedied it in what ever way they did to alleviate the issue.

When most folks setup a toads lighting system, many are not aware that the auxiliary braking system they've chosen, not only pushes on the brake pedal but, by doing so, will activate the toads brake lights, even with the key completely out of the car. When they hook up to the coach and, run checks with their wife or, whom ever, all is good. But, the problem is, YOU'RE NOT MOVING.

It's a stationary check of the lights, not an in-motion one. It's hard to do an in-motion one.

People in RVing have been adding auxiliary sockets and bulbs for quite some time and, yes they work but, the potential problems in doing it this way are there. It's just something to take into consideration.
Scott

The cars I have done had separate lights from the running lights and brake lights. Installed in the tail light compartment your problem does not exist. Brake lights on toad brake or separate from coach t/s and brake.

rk911 wrote:
I would not install diodes into the current wiring but instead install a totally separate wiring harness and a set of extra bulbs in the taillights. when you're hooked up to the MH the umbilical will use the separate wiring harness and bulbs. when driving the toad you'll use the mfg wiring harness and bulbs. we did this on our '03 Jeep Wrangler after multiple failures of diodes leaving us with no taillights or brake lights on the Wrangler. we now tow a 2010 Jeep Liberty that uses a separate wiring harness. no problems in the last 5-years.

if you don't need to leave the key in your ignition in the ON:UNLOCKED position you likely won't need a charge line as nothing will be on. our Liberty is towed with the txfr case in neutral, the tranny in park and no key in the ignition (steering wheel does not lock).

This! X2 on 2008 Grand Cherokee. tow in Park, key out..

Grand Cherokee's have complex electronics that can experience problems with Diodes. Blue Ox specifically recommends against diodes on GC and sells the independent wiring kit.

Bird Freak wrote:

FIRE UP wrote:

Bird Freak wrote:
last 4 toads I wired I just installed another bulb in each taillight and ran the wires straight to them. Never touched vehicle wiring.

Many folks do it this way. But, one of the main problems I see in wiring a toads tail lights this way is this. About 99.9% of the time, when a second bulb is added to the same tail light housing, it's ultra close to the original bulb. And, in the same percentage, there is no partition in between the two bulbs. And, if one has an auxiliary braking system, i.e. Ready Brake, Even Brake, Brake Buddy, and any other system that actually pushes on the brake pedal, then in a very, very large percentage of the toads out there, the brake lights are activated when the brake pedal pushed.

So, here's the potential scenario. You're all hooked up and towing down the road. You're approaching a turn and, you need to slow down. You apply the turn signal in the coach which, in turn, applies it to the additional bulb that's been installed in the toad. It's flashing, as it should be. But, you now apply the brakes in the coach. That, in turn, applies the brakes in the toad too, due to the auxiliary braking system installed in the toad.

If the toad is the same as approximately 90% or more out there in toad land, that auxiliary brake will activate the toads brake lights, correct?

So now, you've got a flashing bulb, most of the time, within approximately 1/2" to 1" away from a full brightness brake light bulb, with no partition between the two. What is a person following the toad, supposed to see?

Now, conditions will vary. One, the toad is one of the ones in the very small percentage that DOES NOT ACTIVATE THE BRAKE LIGHTS when the brake pedal is applied and, the key is in the off position.

Two, there is an actual partition in between the two bulbs.

Three, one is aware of the potential "dual bulb" conflict and, has remedied it in what ever way they did to alleviate the issue.

When most folks setup a toads lighting system, many are not aware that the auxiliary braking system they've chosen, not only pushes on the brake pedal but, by doing so, will activate the toads brake lights, even with the key completely out of the car. When they hook up to the coach and, run checks with their wife or, whom ever, all is good. But, the problem is, YOU'RE NOT MOVING.

It's a stationary check of the lights, not an in-motion one. It's hard to do an in-motion one.

People in RVing have been adding auxiliary sockets and bulbs for quite some time and, yes they work but, the potential problems in doing it this way are there. It's just something to take into consideration.
Scott

The cars I have done had separate lights from the running lights and brake lights. Installed in the tail light compartment your problem does not exist. Brake lights on toad brake or separate from coach t/s and brake.

Eddie,
Well, let me ask you this, on ANY of the toads you've ever towed, do the brake lights light up, if you just walk out and step on the brakes with no key in the ignition?

I can tell you this. In my last toad, a 2011 Honda CRV EX-L 4WD, when you stepped on the brakes and the car was not running and the keys were in my hand, the brake lights activated.

On another of my toads, one that many, many on here tow, an '04 Jeep Rubicon, the brake lights activate when the brake pedal is stepped on, with the keys in my hand.

But, on my present toad, an '11 GMC Sierra Extended Cab 4x4, the brake lights DO NOT activate when the pedal is stepped on, unless the ignition is ON.

So, not all cars will have active brake lights, without ignition.

But on the ones that do, if you install an toad braking system, i.e. like the ones I listed in my other post, those toad braking systems WILL ACTIVATE THE BRAKE LIGHTS, via their action upon the brake pedal, even with the key off.

So, now that that's cleared up, install another bulb, right along side the stock bulb and, apply a turn signal from the coach, what do you now have? In a braking situation and a turn, you'll have brake lights showing on the original bulbs and, flashing from your installed bulb, WITHIN AN INCH OF EACH OTHER.

And, I'm a bit confused on your last sentence:
"Brake lights on toad brake or separate from coach t/s and brake" Huh?
Scott

D.E.Bishop wrote:
David, Lets see if I've got this right, your RV has only red lights, the brake light/turn signal filament, and the taillight filament in the same bulb. Correct so far?

Your towed has a single filament brake light bulb. Correct here too?

And the amber light has a filament for the turn signal and one for the tail lights, correct?

Now, lets imagine what would happen if you connected the left brake/turn signal wire from the RV to the left brake light wire for the towed and you installed a blocking diode in the line between that connection and the towed wiring. Now the power from the RV cannot flow into the towed or to the right side brake light.

Now you have a power source for the left brake and turn signal coming to your towed. If you step on the RV brakes the brake light on the towed comes on, so far so good. Now you turn on the RV's left turn signal and the towed's brake light is now your towed's left turn light. Nothing in the MVC says that it has to be the yellow light on the towed.

Now do the same thing to the right side. Disconnect the cable from the RV to the towed and everything works normally in the towed. Simple right?

There is absolutely no reason to buy and install the single lamp to dual lamp converter.

Now all you have to do is connect the parking light wire from the cable to the parking light circuit of the towed with the appropriate blocking diode and you're legally wired to tow.

Mr Bishop,
Your explanation is pretty close to spot on with one exception. You state that his "Amber light has one filament for the turn signal AND ONE FOR THE TAIL LIGHT".

Well, I could be wrong here, (imagine that) but, I don't think there's any tail light filament in the Amber turn light. The reason I think that is, the Amber lights on about 99% of most vehicles out there, be them a motor home or, regular car, are not used as regular tail lights, only turn signals, correct?

You are most certainly correct in the fact that there is no law that says turn signals MUST BE AMBER. That's why there are some red and, some amber. It just means the coach builder or, vehicle builder chose to use what ever they wanted, as turn signal colors. In my dealings with the OP here, I simply explained that I wire up the tail light converters in the toads I've towed, to utilize the AMBER turn signals because I personally like the way the lights are presented to a person following my toads.

If I have a vehicle with amber turn signals, and I use it for a toad, I want them to work, like they should and, like they do when I'm driving it. It's not very hard at all to insert the specific tail light converter so that the tail lights on the toad, act the same exact way when towing it, as they do when driving it. It's preference thing for me.

Your suggestion for placement of the diodes is in accordance with the drawing I supplied the OP and is posted in this thread. Some will place a second set of diodes in the line from the coach, just before it's tied into the toads wiring. As you would know, that would prevent any action from the toads lighting system, to back flow into the coaches wiring and lighting system. I have never done this because it's never been a worry to me.
Scott

FIRE UP wrote:

Bird Freak wrote:

FIRE UP wrote:

Bird Freak wrote:
last 4 toads I wired I just installed another bulb in each taillight and ran the wires straight to them. Never touched vehicle wiring.

Many folks do it this way. But, one of the main problems I see in wiring a toads tail lights this way is this. About 99.9% of the time, when a second bulb is added to the same tail light housing, it's ultra close to the original bulb. And, in the same percentage, there is no partition in between the two bulbs. And, if one has an auxiliary braking system, i.e. Ready Brake, Even Brake, Brake Buddy, and any other system that actually pushes on the brake pedal, then in a very, very large percentage of the toads out there, the brake lights are activated when the brake pedal pushed.

So, here's the potential scenario. You're all hooked up and towing down the road. You're approaching a turn and, you need to slow down. You apply the turn signal in the coach which, in turn, applies it to the additional bulb that's been installed in the toad. It's flashing, as it should be. But, you now apply the brakes in the coach. That, in turn, applies the brakes in the toad too, due to the auxiliary braking system installed in the toad.

If the toad is the same as approximately 90% or more out there in toad land, that auxiliary brake will activate the toads brake lights, correct?

So now, you've got a flashing bulb, most of the time, within approximately 1/2" to 1" away from a full brightness brake light bulb, with no partition between the two. What is a person following the toad, supposed to see?

Now, conditions will vary. One, the toad is one of the ones in the very small percentage that DOES NOT ACTIVATE THE BRAKE LIGHTS when the brake pedal is applied and, the key is in the off position.

Two, there is an actual partition in between the two bulbs.

Three, one is aware of the potential "dual bulb" conflict and, has remedied it in what ever way they did to alleviate the issue.

When most folks setup a toads lighting system, many are not aware that the auxiliary braking system they've chosen, not only pushes on the brake pedal but, by doing so, will activate the toads brake lights, even with the key completely out of the car. When they hook up to the coach and, run checks with their wife or, whom ever, all is good. But, the problem is, YOU'RE NOT MOVING.

It's a stationary check of the lights, not an in-motion one. It's hard to do an in-motion one.

People in RVing have been adding auxiliary sockets and bulbs for quite some time and, yes they work but, the potential problems in doing it this way are there. It's just something to take into consideration.
Scott

The cars I have done had separate lights from the running lights and brake lights. Installed in the tail light compartment your problem does not exist. Brake lights on toad brake or separate from coach t/s and brake.

Eddie,
Well, let me ask you this, on ANY of the toads you've ever towed, do the brake lights light up, if you just walk out and step on the brakes with no key in the ignition?

I can tell you this. In my last toad, a 2011 Honda CRV EX-L 4WD, when you stepped on the brakes and the car was not running and the keys were in my hand, the brake lights activated.

On another of my toads, one that many, many on here tow, an '04 Jeep Rubicon, the brake lights activate when the brake pedal is stepped on, with the keys in my hand.

But, on my present toad, an '11 GMC Sierra Extended Cab 4x4, the brake lights DO NOT activate when the pedal is stepped on, unless the ignition is ON.

So, not all cars will have active brake lights, without ignition.

But on the ones that do, if you install an toad braking system, i.e. like the ones I listed in my other post, those toad braking systems WILL ACTIVATE THE BRAKE LIGHTS, via their action upon the brake pedal, even with the key off.

So, now that that's cleared up, install another bulb, right along side the stock bulb and, apply a turn signal from the coach, what do you now have? In a braking situation and a turn, you'll have brake lights showing on the original bulbs and, flashing from your installed bulb, WITHIN AN INCH OF EACH OTHER.

And, I'm a bit confused on your last sentence:
"Brake lights on toad brake or separate from coach t/s and brake" Huh?
Scott

OK, lets try this again. On mine the running lights did NOT use the same bulb or compartment in the housing as the brake lights, therefore the bulb I installed was NOT next to the brake light. It was installed next to the running light bulb that was divided from the brake light so when the lights were on it was in a separate part of the lens than the toad light. This way when you hit the brakes the original brake lights came on as well as the ones I installed in the running light housing giving you 4 brake lights instead of 2. If you were making a turn then you had 1 brake and 1 t/s on the side you were turning.

To lacofdfireman, a simple way of connecting your RV and towed lights is to buy three off the shelf no hassle items. Pollak, Hopkins and RV Designer each make all three items. First item is an adapter from the seven blade type outlet on your RV to a flat four outlet, second is a five foot flat four cable with a tow vehicle plug on one end and a towed vehicle outlet on the other end, third is to buy a standard four wire cable(usually 25 foot) with the towed vehicle plug already attached to one end. Now your all the way back to the towed's lights and you can attach the cable any one of the several satisfactory methods mentioned in earlier posts.

From your RV to your towed everything is factory made with no splices required. You will have a plug exposed on the front of the towed but there are a lot of ways to hide it. Of course you could drill a hole in your bumper cover and put a socket in the hole, what ever floats your boat. The big thing is the adapter from 7 to four, that costs +/- $10.00.

To Fireup, Scott you're right, I did switch the bulbs around the brake/tail light bulb has two filaments and the turn signal one.

I found it easier, cheaper and more reliable than the converter which I have never has good luck with.

By the way I'm David or Dave but thanks for the sign of respect for an old fart.

David

I thank everyone for your help. Especially Scott who spent an hour on the phone with me teaching me the right way to do it using the Jeeps OEM tail lights and running lights. I really appreciate it. Unfortunately with time restraints and me wanting to be able to take our Cherokee with us on our trip I had to buy a kit with bulbs. I almost wonder if the Cherokee is designed to do this to the tail lights as they have a section in the bottom of the light for drilling out and has its own reflector separate from the other lights. Made for a super easy clean install. I think I had maybe 30-45min max to install the lights and run the wires to the front. Hooked up my SUV to it to check the lights since my Motorhome is still in the shop waiting for an exhaust pipe for the new Onan generator we just put in it. But that's another story. It's been in the shop for almost 2 weeks waiting for a generator specific exhaust pipe. I can't believe they can't just go to a muffler shop and say bend me an exhaust. It's only one bend I can't believe it would have to be an Onan specific exhaust pipe. Oh well. What can you do?