AGM batteries

I have a 5yo Deka AGM and 2 x Optimas and have never equalized. Charge Volts are temp compensated. There is no such thing as a fixed Voltage.

Equalize to me means stir the liquid. That is impossible with both AGM and Gel.

Stirring the liquid is a regular maintenance procedure for wets. Do NOT make any attempt to stir AGM or Gel.

Now there is the OTHER definition that deals with individual cells that are not being fully recharged. This can happen to all LAs. This will present as a loss of capacity. That is what Lifeline means when they define conditioning for their AGMs. Conditioning is a recovery procedure AFTER you notice a loss of capacity and is performed AFTER Lifeline procedure 5.4 - Charging.

Wet folks are always coming along and confusing the two definitions.

HTH;
John

Almot wrote:

It had just crossed my mind - Deka has some manuals that relate to both AGM and gel. Did they specifically mentioned AGM for that equalizing voltage?

Yes, this was in a manual for their AGM batts.

MEXICOWANDERER wrote:
Just re-read this thread. Here is a lot of pretty savy battery guys and look at the differences of "opinions"

Yes. Opinions, not facts.

Only Lifeline sheds some official light in the manual.
Nerdy users here follow the manuals. Since there is nothing in manuals, they don't equalize and can't report how and when to do this.

Those who need a label "This Side Down" embossed on their coffee cup (that was a good one :) ), they don't read anything too technical and don't follow. They simply throw away their money and natural resources more often. Since there are millions of them, manufacturers are catering to this segment and don't publish anything complicated.

bigfootford wrote:

Well explain why my Lifelines are still developing full spec capacity after 4 years?

Simple. You said you are fully charging them every time. This is a perfect pattern for any battery. So they will last long.

Those other examples - people not equalizing AGM for 8-9 years - just confirm that those brands can take a lot of abuse. Or they only use them a few weeks total in a year. Battery lifespan should be measured in cycles, not years. Many people are weekend warriors.

bigfootford wrote:
Per lifeline:

Bulk/Absorb 14.2v - 14.4v

Confirms what I said earlier - 14.4 is a Bulk, not Equalizing.

Wanna know why manufacturers are reluctant to publish information on how to go about conditioning an AGM battery? Just re-read this thread. Here is a lot of pretty savy battery guys and look at the differences of "opinions"...

Manufacturers "appeal" to ten thousand times the number of battery customers and many of them need to have "This Side Down" embossed on their coffee cup.

They read the ad. The instant they encounter the least bit of techhie jargon, they screech "Other brand! OTHER BRAND! The one that says "Plug And Play!"

You know how these threads evolve. Would YOU like to be responsible to produce technical literature that would give do-it-yourself nerds shivers of delight as to the interpretation of the meaning of the word, "is"? Think about it.

Sales takes their fears of (killing sales) "overwhelming" customers with technical jargon to the legal department and litigation fear-mongers marching in tandem with the paisley and fluorescent tie crowd thunder into the executive meeting room and put the fear of god and the board of directors into the hearts of executive management. Any thought of producing comprehensive maintenance goes out the eleventh story window.

Almot wrote:

bigfootford wrote:

The PD does the 15 min equalize routine every 21 hrs at 14.4vdc.... Sufficient????

Equalizing every day would not be just sufficient, and would likely be overkill. But 14.4V barely qualifies as bulk charge (aka Absorb setpoint), not to mention equalizing. Most chargers, including solar, have 14-something bulk setpoint and timer that maintains this 14-something for one hour. This is merely a 2nd stage of a routine 3-stage charging, and is not equalizing.

Well explain why my Lifelines are still developing full spec capacity after 4 years?

Per lifeline:

Charging Phase 2 Volt Battery 6 Volt Battery 12 Volt Battery
Bulk/Absorb 2.37v - 2.40v 7.10v - 7.20v 14.2v - 14.4v
Float 2.20v - 2.23v 6.60v - 6.70v 13.20v - 13.40v
NOTES:

Is not that all we want? Batteries to last and maintain capacity?

I know a fella that got almost 8 years on his AGM lifeline...WFCO that never got into bulk and a solar system that never did over 14.6....

I also know someone that has almost 9 years on optima's running a pd9145. And solar. Never equalized no special attention....Still near spec...

I have tested both of these systems and know to be true.

Jim

mena661 wrote:
Deka lists an equalizing voltage but no instructions that I can find on when to perform that procedure.

It had just crossed my mind - Deka has some manuals that relate to both AGM and gel. Did they specifically mentioned AGM for that equalizing voltage?

EsoxLucius wrote:


Refresh charge
If Fullriver batteries are properly charged they should never require an equalizing charge. If they were not properly charged and there is a decrease in capacity, recharge the batteries and make sure they complete the entire charge cycle.

Full charge from time to time is sure better than incomplete charge, but the term "equalizing" normally means keeping battery at elevated voltage, i.e. higher than its normal Bulk setpoint, for some time.

Fullriver are calling a normal full charge a "Refresh Charge" and suggest doing it in lieu of equalizing.

bigfootford wrote:

The PD does the 15 min equalize routine every 21 hrs at 14.4vdc.... Sufficient????

Equalizing every day would not be just sufficient, and would likely be overkill. But 14.4V barely qualifies as bulk charge (aka Absorb setpoint), not to mention equalizing. Most chargers, including solar, have 14-something bulk setpoint and timer that maintains this 14-something for one hour. This is merely a 2nd stage of a routine 3-stage charging, and is not equalizing.

I agree that it is confusing.
I have lifelines that are right at 4 years old.
I charge them with a Progressive Dynamics 9260 and 200watts of solar.

The PD does the 15 min equalize routine every 21 hrs at 14.4vdc.... Sufficient???? Hell if I know.
When I first got them I was concerned by the 13.2 Float voltage, but I believe the equalize routine prevents the 13.2 from being detrimental.

When out camping I charge back to full daily + about 2-3%...( Use 20ah charge back 22-23.)
Although I have not been able to get all the way back to 100% for a couple of days due to weather/trees.

I normally do not discharge lower than 70% SOC.

My batteries are still at spec...I test them every couple of months at a discharge rate of c/20.

Jim