another source for agm batteries

How would you define FULLY RECHARGED?

Sounds to me as they are suggest full recharge, if not you'll loose capacity. I see that in the manual.

red31 wrote:
Lifline manual

battery's SoC will gradually "walk down" as it is cycled leading to premature failure. Therefore, it is important to verify that the battery is not being undercharged.

Is not that the same as saying fully charge?

I don't believe that is the definition of a cycle as depicted in life-cycle charts. A cycle must end with some type of completion criteria. In fact life-cycle only means the point in time when the battery has 80% of its original capacity.

Here is the complete quote:

Lifeline 5.4 wrote:
Note that this formula is approximate and the full charge state should be verified using the criteria given above (current drops below 0.5% of rated capacity). If the recharge does not
return 102% to 110% of the discharged capacity, the battery’s state of charge will gradually “walk down” as it is cycled leading to premature failure. Therefore, it is important to verify that
the battery is not being undercharged.

A cycle will meet the criteria of "(charge) current drops below 0.5% of rated capacity" and/or "return 102% to 110% of the discharged capacity". When you complete these criteria, you have a cycle.

I have no idea how to correlate partial use/recharge, or charge while in use to life cycle charts.

A lot depends on how long the sulphate remains on the plate(s) and therefor, needs a special recovery charge to release old, stubborn S atoms as described in 5.5. Lifeline says to observe a loss of capacity AFTER a 5.4 charge(cycle) as the signal to do a 5.5.

HTH;
John

I was going to complain that BD batteries hadn't responded in any way to my order of 2 days ago, but 1 minute after I did, they shipped.

Lifline manual

battery's SoC will gradually "walk down" as it is cycled leading to premature failure. Therefore, it is important to verify that the battery is not being undercharged.

Is not that the same as saying fully charge?

Almot wrote:

full_mosey wrote:

There seems to be a belief that AGMs must be fully charge with each cycle. I don't see that in the Lifeline manual.

It's not in the manual. But there was a boaters discussion including consulting with Lifeline engineers that I'm sure many of us have read. They concluded that Lifeline AGM should better be charged fully, otherwise a routine scheduled equalization is needed. They call equalization "conditioning". Last time when I tried, could not access their forum due to some restrictions. From memory:

Fully charge each cycle, estimated life 8 years.
Fully charge once a week and equalize once a month, life 5 Years.
Charge to 85% and equalize once a month, life 3 years.

Lifeline funded that sailor's report at least to the cost of the batteries. I don't mean to say we should suspend belief on the report, just keep that in mind.

What LA battery would not do well if babied with a full charge with each cycle? I disagree with MUST being applied to AGMs alone. Does anyone recall the Amps, Volts and hours of those conditioning runs? Is that what Lifeline now calls 5.5 in their manual? Were the subject batteries taken off line? Compare to what we call RVing.

What exactly does fully charge mean anyway, 100% transfer of every single S atom from the paste and back into the water?; 99, 98, 97......%, where exactly is it time to get back to RVing?

I believe that what I said, do, and did, is very close, minus the high voltage. As we know, even 13.6V will eventually charge an LA battery if left on for days as opposed to hours.

My Deka is 5yo, or to be exact, will be Jan 2014, and may have been treated as unmercifully as those sailors did the Lifelines. I did read that sailor's report more than once but must now rely on mine and other's recollection of the details. I'm sure we all came away with our own interpretations and recollections.

The routine I use was initiated last summer, after acquiring the Turnigy, or about 1.5 years ago. For sure, the Deka is my first lab rat battery and had been subjected to some awful treatment for the first two years. I continue to stress all three AGMs in driveway tests. I have chosen my replacement AGMs and plant to get many years of service from them as well. They will be treated differently with more focus on using them instead of trying to see what torture they can endure.

If my plans go well, I am going to caravan to Q'zite for the Jan events and another dry-camping adventure.

My posts are for entertainment only, facts are AFAICR, IMHO and YMMV. :)

HTH;
John

full_mosey wrote:

There seems to be a belief that AGMs must be fully charge with each cycle. I don't see that in the Lifeline manual.

It's not in the manual. But there was a boaters discussion including consulting with Lifeline engineers that I'm sure many of us have read. They concluded that Lifeline AGM should better be charged fully, otherwise a routine scheduled equalization is needed. They call equalization "conditioning". Last time when I tried, could not access their forum due to some restrictions. From memory:

Fully charge each cycle, estimated life 8 years.
Fully charge once a week and equalize once a month, life 5 Years.
Charge to 85% and equalize once a month, life 3 years.

full_mosey wrote:


There is always too much month left at the end of the money - Phillis Diller.

HTH;
John

LOL X2

mena661 wrote:
John, I can't tell sulfation with voltage but I don't do the 50-90 thing either and have no routine established like you do. I plan to avoid all of that by spending more money on an even larger battery bank and solar if we ever do any long term off grid camping. :)

With two banks and the largest being 2 x 55AH = 110AH, I don't have enough to power my microwave. I did make 3 pots of coffee once with a 1kw MSW inverter and the 79AH battery. The coffee maker draws 600W.

My big dream upgrade is to replace the 79AH with 2 x 100AH, a Prowatt SW2000, and a parallax paramode 4455TC(temp-comp). That should give me enough to plug in the whole TT. I would use the 79AH at home for computer UPS duty.

There is always too much month left at the end of the money - Phillis Diller.

HTH;
John

John, I can't tell sulfation with voltage but I don't do the 50-90 thing either and have no routine established like you do. I plan to avoid all of that by spending more money on an even larger battery bank and solar if we ever do any long term off grid camping. :)