Auto step just stopped working

pnichols wrote:
Doug,

My step was self-tapping metal screwed up into place with somewhere between 4 to 6 of these screws to hold the whole step up into position.

How are these automatic steps on RVs usually held up in place? Winnebago installed mine at the factory and USUALLY Winne knows what they're doing - but not this time.

The front 2 of these 4 to 6 screws had become loose on our step. Almost one's full body weight would of course wind up pulling straight down on just these two front-most screws. After many years, the whole step was hence starting to hang down along it's front edge due to these front screws working loose - with the few still-tight screws in the back of the step's frame doing most of holding of the step at that point.

I replaced those front 2 screws with the proper kind of fastener - a couple of long 3/8" machine treaded lug bolts, wahers, and nuts that will not rust and now can be tightened up periodically if needed conveniently up right from the top of the first step.

Our friends had the same poor mounting situation by the Fleetwood factory on their Class C's manual steps ... so I suspect that the manual and automatic step manufacturers are not yet getting hit with enough injury lawsuits so as to use beefy enough step attachment designs for their RV entrance step products.

By the way, why is everyone so quiet regarding the proximity detector maybe failing and thus causing an automatic step to cease functiong? If this is ever the cause, it would be ultra easy to replace.

By proximity detector do you mean the magnetic door switch? I don't know of any proximity detector being used other than that. There are literally hundreds of threads on the failure of Kwikee steps and most of them mention the door switch. The switches are probably the strongest part of the system.

Doug,

My step was self-tapping metal screwed up into place with somewhere between 4 to 6 of these screws to hold the whole step up into position.

How are these automatic steps on RVs usually held up in place? Winnebago installed mine at the factory and USUALLY Winne knows what they're doing - but not this time.

The front 2 of these 4 to 6 screws had become loose on our step. Almost one's full body weight would of course wind up pulling straight down on just these two front-most screws. After many years, the whole step was hence starting to hang down along it's front edge due to these front screws working loose - with the few still-tight screws in the back of the step's frame doing most of holding of the step at that point.

I replaced those front 2 screws with the proper kind of fastener - a couple of long 3/8" machine treaded lug bolts, wahers, and nuts that will not rust and now can be tightened up periodically if needed conveniently up right from the top of the first step.

Our friends had the same poor mounting situation by the Fleetwood factory on their Class C's manual steps ... so I suspect that the manual and automatic step manufacturers are not yet getting hit with enough injury lawsuits so as to use beefy enough step attachment designs for their RV entrance step products.

By the way, why is everyone so quiet regarding the proximity detector maybe failing and thus causing an automatic step to cease functiong? If this is ever the cause, it would be ultra easy to replace.

pnichols wrote:
Chris,

You can also just unscrew the step from the coach's flooring/framing/whatever and drop the entire step if it's the motor that's the problem - instead of maybe the easy to get at proximity detector being the problem.

P.S and In Fact - A couple of years ago I had to replace some of our RV automatic step's puny attachment metel screws with 3/8" stainless steel lag bolts going through holes I drilled up above into solid coach steel framing. 220+ lbs. of me repeatedly entering/exiting the coach by stepping - year after year - on an inadequately attached automatic step was an accident waiting to happen.

That being said ... automatic RV steps are a wonderful thing to have. I even mounted a SideWinder automatic step on the passenger side of my 4X4 pickup truck cuz it's too high off the ground for "short" folks to get up into, and cuz I didn't want to reduce ground clearance whenever traveling off-road - like Nerf Bars do.

You have to be kidding. REMOVING the step to replace a step motor????? That's a LOT of work for a 10 minute job. And removing it does not solve the fact that you still cannot get easy access to the 3 motor mount bolts if the step is retracted. Doug

j-d wrote:
Doug, Have you autopsied any failed motors? When we had a couple older (1980's) Fords, there were continuing issues with window motors getting wet. The brushes would stick so they didn't put pressure on the commutator segments, or the segments themselves would get corroded. I could salvage those, the round motors. I don't recall needing to figure out if an armature winding had failed. Then Ford came up with the square motors, and I haven't figured out how to get the brushes back in, since they're at the other end of the motor...

No, do not waste my time doing that:) Just an easy way to determine if you have a defective motor. I believe lack of maintenance is the cause on older steps. Not cleaning them and lubing the pivot points. Newer steps(last 4 or 5 years) just a failure of the motors. Probably due to cutting the cost of the motors. I replace a LOT of Kwikee motors that are less than 2 years old and the linkages are not binding. Also, since Kwikee is the ONLY maker now, there is a larger numbers of steps out there and the failures will appear to be more common. When you had Coach Step AND Kwikee as the only 2, you did not notice the failures as much. What is interesting is, Coach Step(LCI) had a larger number of Motor failures than Kwikee, so I believe that once LCI purchased Kwikee and dropped the Coach Step brand, LCI told the Motor makers to cut costs. Doug

Chris,

You can also just unscrew the step from the coach's flooring/framing/whatever and drop the entire step if it's the motor that's the problem - instead of maybe the easy to get at proximity detector being the problem.

P.S and In Fact - A couple of years ago I had to replace some of our RV automatic step's puny attachment metel screws with 3/8" stainless steel lag bolts going through holes I drilled up above into solid coach steel framing. 220+ lbs. of me repeatedly entering/exiting the coach by stepping - year after year - on an inadequately attached automatic step was an accident waiting to happen.

That being said ... automatic RV steps are a wonderful thing to have. I even mounted a SideWinder automatic step on the passenger side of my 4X4 pickup truck cuz it's too high off the ground for "short" folks to get up into, and cuz I didn't want to reduce ground clearance whenever traveling off-road - like Nerf Bars do.

Doug, Have you autopsied any failed motors? When we had a couple older (1980's) Fords, there were continuing issues with window motors getting wet. The brushes would stick so they didn't put pressure on the commutator segments, or the segments themselves would get corroded. I could salvage those, the round motors. I don't recall needing to figure out if an armature winding had failed. Then Ford came up with the square motors, and I haven't figured out how to get the brushes back in, since they're at the other end of the motor...

The motor is defective. What you did is PROVE the motor is defective. It will fail again and again until you replace it. My post did not state that tapping would fix it, just HOW to determine what the problem is. Doug

PS, If the motor fails when retracted, it will be almost impossible to replace it. With the step retracted, look and determine HOW you can get the motor out. A LOT easier with the steps extended.

dougrainer wrote:
The most common problem for your type problem is a defective motor. It has a dead spot in the windings. Troubleshooting takes 30 seconds. Open and close the entry door. If the AMBER step light comes on and off when you open and close the door, the step module and wiring are OK. When it fails, you have someone open and close the door and you tap on the motor with a hammer. IF the step motor then operates the motor is bad. Always do your testing with the engine running. The extra 1 to 2 volts from the engine helps activate a bad motor. Doug

Great advice all!

Okay, I checked and the step light seemed to be functioning properly (coming on when the door opens). But the step wasn't moving. Thinking I would have to bring it in to the RV mechanic/shop, I decided "okay...let's give it a couple taps with a hammer". I couldn't imagine that I'd be so lucky to have that fix the problem (....afterall, it seems like something a caveman would do! lol....). Well, after a few taps I tried opening the door and low-and-behold....the step started working again!

Can anyone explain what is so magical about a couple of love taps on the motor? (....I've got a technical background and it just doesn't seem like a sensible approach, yet it worked!).

A couple of you have indicated that since the hammer tap seemed to "fix" the problem that it is likely a bad motor. Now that it seems to be working, I'm not particularly motivated to bring it in to the shop. What should I expect will happen with this step/motor? From your experience, does it seem likely that it will **** out again very soon? Or have some of you performed this "tap magic" and then had a trouble-free step for years to come?? Just curious...

Thanks!!! This forum is incredibly helpful!

-Chris

The most common problem for your type problem is a defective motor. It has a dead spot in the windings. Troubleshooting takes 30 seconds. Open and close the entry door. If the AMBER step light comes on and off when you open and close the door, the step module and wiring are OK. When it fails, you have someone open and close the door and you tap on the motor with a hammer. IF the step motor then operates the motor is bad. Always do your testing with the engine running. The extra 1 to 2 volts from the engine helps activate a bad motor. Doug

One thing I forgot to mention is that in 2005, Kwikee no longer used the Ford type of lift motor for their steps. AM Equipment in Oregon made the motors from 2005 until Kwikee was sold to Power Gear and then to LCI. There are not any repair kits for AM Equipment lift motors and there are not any repair kits available at this time for the gear and linkage assemblies.

I do not know much about Kwikee since it was sold but LCI publishes a manual that is basically the same as the #888, they also publish the #890 which is for Winnebago and may vary slightly from the #888, "may very" are the key words.