Can I move a GFCI receptacle?

Rick Jay wrote:
martipr,

Perhaps I'm a bit thick here...but I don't fully understand the reasoning behind swapping one GFCI for another GFCI outlet? Is that what you're asking, or are you asking about swapping the GFCI outlet (the one with the test/reset buttons) with a regular outlet? There should only be one GFCI outlet (with buttons) on any branch circuit. If you have two, then you most likely have GFCI protection on 2 different electrical circuit branches. Or am I misreading your posts?

If I may tie some pieces together, some of this has been said and you may already know the rest, but just in case...

When a GFCI outlet is installed it can be wired in such a way that only that outlet is protected or such that it and all outlets "downstream" are protected. Any outlets between the breaker panel and the GFCI will not be ground fault protected. Usually, they should be installed in a location where it's easy to reach/test/reset. Apparently yours doesn't sound like it is.

If you're not sure which outlets are protected by this outlet, you can buy one of these GFCI Testers at most hardware stores and use it to see which outlets trip the GFCI and which do not.

If you can find the wires feeding this GFCI, another options is to install a more readily accessible outlet upstream of this GFCI so that it will be easier to test & reset.(They should be tested every month. They are known to fail.) Wire it in so all of the downstream outlets are protected as well.

Someone else mentioned installing a GFCI breaker in your main panel. That should also be an option, you just have to know the manufacturer of your panel and take a trip to an electrical supply shop or large hardware store and pickup what you need. I'd probably recommend bringing one of your current breakers with you to make sure you get the proper breaker.

As a side note, I've always found it interesting that motorhome manufacturers have such confidence in their roof structure and sealing procedures that they see the need to GFCI protect the outlets up front above the cab area. One of our first camping trips, we were watching the TV at night and all of a sudden the TV/DVD player shut down. I checked the main panel in the motorhome, checked the power at the pedastal. All was good. Then it occurred to me, our then 4 year old daughter was on the potty, and apparently the red & black GFCI buttons on the outlet were too tempting to resist. So, lesson learned. Thought it odd our rig was wired that way, but apparently many are.

Good Luck,

~Rick

My TT has 4 GFCI outlets only one of which has a reset button. That one is hidden in the back of the entertainment center behind the TV. I want to put a GFCI outlet without a reset in that position and put the GfCI outlet with reset in the more accesable location. I assume the outlet behind the TV is a GFCI because it is on the wall behind the shower so I don't want to put a standard outlet there.

Swap out the recept. behind the MW with a non-GFCI one. Then install a GFCI recept. next to the converter panel and redirect the branch circuit romex to run to the new recept. along with a new short piece of romex between the new recept. and panel.

If no space for a recept. next to the panel but there is space nearby, you could always install a junction box and extend the romex as needed.

Even *if* a GFCI breaker would fit in the panel, they cost a lot more than a GFCI recept.

" Then it occurred to me, our then 4 year old daughter was on the potty, and apparently the red & black GFCI buttons on the outlet were a too tempting to resist. So, lesson learned."

That's a classic! Made me laugh. Thanks!

martipr,

Perhaps I'm a bit thick here...but I don't fully understand the reasoning behind swapping one GFCI for another GFCI outlet? Is that what you're asking, or are you asking about swapping the GFCI outlet (the one with the test/reset buttons) with a regular outlet? There should only be one GFCI outlet (with buttons) on any branch circuit. If you have two, then you most likely have GFCI protection on 2 different electrical circuit branches. Or am I misreading your posts?

If I may tie some pieces together, some of this has been said and you may already know the rest, but just in case...

When a GFCI outlet is installed it can be wired in such a way that only that outlet is protected or such that it and all outlets "downstream" are protected. Any outlets between the breaker panel and the GFCI will not be ground fault protected. Usually, they should be installed in a location where it's easy to reach/test/reset. Apparently yours doesn't sound like it is.

If you're not sure which outlets are protected by this outlet, you can buy one of these GFCI Testers at most hardware stores and use it to see which outlets trip the GFCI and which do not.

If you can find the wires feeding this GFCI, another options is to install a more readily accessible outlet upstream of this GFCI so that it will be easier to test & reset.(They should be tested every month. They are known to fail.) Wire it in so all of the downstream outlets are protected as well.

Someone else mentioned installing a GFCI breaker in your main panel. That should also be an option, you just have to know the manufacturer of your panel and take a trip to an electrical supply shop or large hardware store and pickup what you need. I'd probably recommend bringing one of your current breakers with you to make sure you get the proper breaker.

As a side note, I've always found it interesting that motorhome manufacturers have such confidence in their roof structure and sealing procedures that they see the need to GFCI protect the outlets up front above the cab area. One of our first camping trips, we were watching the TV at night and all of a sudden the TV/DVD player shut down. I checked the main panel in the motorhome, checked the power at the pedastal. All was good. Then it occurred to me, our then 4 year old daughter was on the potty, and apparently the red & black GFCI buttons on the outlet were too tempting to resist. So, lesson learned. Thought it odd our rig was wired that way, but apparently many are.

Good Luck,

~Rick

Yes, only certain receptacles have to e GFCI protected. The location of the actual GFCI receptacle is not stated. It can be any where to protect the required receptacles. The Manufacturer chose the location for ease of installation. Is this case location is not the best!

aruba5er wrote:
the trouble with moving it somewhere else is usually the regular outlets are not installed in a box. The gfci needs to be because they need regular mounting unlike the vampire bite outlets used in the rest of the rv.. And if your rv is anything like mine, most of the breakers are 1/2" or doubles so installing a gfci breaker may not be possible. I guess you'll have to tough it out. Buy a newer one. The older ones were very unrelible by todays standards

Thanks for replying, however please read my original post. I am asking about swapping with another GFCI outlet, not a regular outlet.

enblethen wrote:
Yes, there is issues with moving it. The GFCI receptacle must be the first in the circuit.
One way is to install a GFCI breaker in the 120 volt distribution panel.

Not correct. The NEC does not require an entire circuit to be protected unless it is the only branch circuit. When more than one circuit exists, GFCI protection is only required in certain areas such as bathrooms, kitchen, exterior, etc. A receptacle in a TV cabinet does not have to be protected. Moving the GFCI to the next recptacle downstream is acceptable as wnjj suggests.

the trouble with moving it somewhere else is usually the regular outlets are not installed in a box. The gfci needs to be because they need regular mounting unlike the vampire bite outlets used in the rest of the rv.. And if your rv is anything like mine, most of the breakers are 1/2" or doubles so installing a gfci breaker may not be possible. I guess you'll have to tough it out. Buy a newer one. The older ones were very unrelible by todays standards

martipr wrote:
The GFCI receptacle with the reset button in my TT is buried behind the television in the cabinet. Is there any problem with swapping it with one of the more accessible GFCI receptacle?

I thought all GFCI receptacles had a reset button?

You could change the next receptacle in the line to a GCFI and then connect both sets of wires at the first one together and to the 'line" side. This means the first one will only trip for things plug into it and the other will trip for the rest.