Contradictions with EV’s

Timmo! wrote:

pianotuna wrote:

Timmo! wrote:
How many thousands of gallons of water are required to extinguish BEV fires?

How many lbs of heavy metals are released while BEV's roast like marshmallows? (Per Tesla advice of letting BEV fires burn out naturally).

Oh what tales we weave....

How many ice fires last year? 150,000. I think EV fires are much less of a problem.

Dealerships don't love BEV technology because there is so little to fix. No more oil changes, longer lasting brakes, and the like.

How is replacing "bad" ICE vehicles with an equivalent "bad" BEV progress? Especially at a significant financial premium?

We don't know what we "don't know". What is the salvage/recycle plan when replacing BEV lithium batteries (sourced from open pit mining operations) at the "end of life"--or every 10 or so years?

For us that have been around, do remember the promises made by the "alternative energy" elites about clean nuclear energy...problem was not the operations of nuke plants, but what to do with the nuke waste. What is the disposal plan for expired lithium batteries?

Many of us have seen this movie before.

The part I put into bold should be very concerning to all people, it definitely concerns me. But hey, I grew up surrounded by refineries, many got their start back in the 1880's with the PA oil fields boom.

Back then, they disposed of unusable refining materials simply by putting them in drums, paying someone a few bucks to load them at night and drive around dumping those materials on the roads or placing drums in open fields in ditches and then over time covering it all up with a layer of dirt..

All well and fine until the drums rotted out and the contents seeped into the ground water.

One refinery about 10 miles from me made it onto the EPA "Superfund" cleanup.. They abandoned multiple huge unlined settling ponds with leftover materials in the late 1960's.. Then in the mid 1970s, on a unused part of that property a coal wash plant was setup and ran for 5 or so yrs.. The coal was washed but the process left lots of stuff like Mercury residuals from the coal on that property leaching into water wells and systems..

Since the 1990s, something like 20 small dumpsites have been found around my area, some as close as 5 miles from me.. Have a family member that had a nice home with a huge garage that they had to leave and the house was demolished.. The garage was left standing with my relatives understanding no one can ever build or live on that property again (they are allowed to use that garage for non living storage uses)..

Folks seem to believe that making solar panels and lithium batteries are environmentally clean TODAY.. BUT, in 10yrs, 20yrs, 100yrs from now, a very good chance that much more harm has been done than good to our environment.

Way too many unkowns of what is being done with all of the hazardous materials leftover from manufacturing solar panels and Lithium batteries. There are extremely hazardous gasses and materials used in the manufacturing of semiconductor plates for solar panels. They all have to be made, they all have to be recovered and stored or destroyed safely..

Just because the general "consensus" says something is safe today, doesn't mean that it was safe 20yrs or more down the road..

Folks have pretty short memories and most likely do not remember the hype over CFCs like R12 and R22. So, those items were banned and replaced with the lesser evil like lesser efficient R134..

Thinning of the ozone layer from CFCs was blamed to cause "global warming" since the 1990s.

The CFC ban hasn't changed the "climate change/global warming" even though it is claimed the ozone layer has improved..

Since that didn't fix it, lets play the blame game on something else?

Hence why we now have "carbon" marked as the bad guy.. The most plentiful element of this planet..

in 10-20 yrs, you just might find Lithium on that blame list..

Many or most states charge the road tax to the registration. I assume the rest will soon follow.
Never mind carbon, I want clean air. Yes the utilities are still in transition to solar and wind. Great progress has been made in 50 years. With any luck progress to cleaner air will continue.

BTW, Richard Feyman said that “Science is the satisfactory Philosophy of ignorance”...One should note, this is why by definition the science is never ‘settled’…

3 tons

ICE’s are already under a disproportionate tax burden since they pay at the pump for roadways used by EV’s, while simultaneously society subsidizes EV’s, thus the clarion call, “all is quite well so long as it’s someone else’s Ox that’s getting gored” right!!…Meanwhile (popular consensus aside…), no consideration whatsoever is assigned to evidence that EV operation actually causes a ‘net’ increase carbon production over that of ICE vehicles - Are we to pretend that EV’s don’t use fuel?? One might resist the archetypal impulse to seek regulatory exemption at the expense of others…

3 tons

3 tons wrote:

time2roll wrote:
If you can get past all the environmental and political junk..... EVs are fun to drive.

Admittedly, I’ve never driven one (but would love to!), but after once having gotten the opportunity to drive a diesel / traction motor locomotive (a switch engine, with over 1.25 million pounds in tow!!), the traction motor torque was incredible (and no transmission!).

I believe EV’s must be truly outstanding to drive, and that ultimately EV’s should stand alone on their own unfettered and fact-based merits…It’s in this light that I restrict my own criticisms to taxpayer funded subsidies (i.e. narrative-based wealth redistribution schemes), and ‘assertions’ surrounding a ‘net’ reduction in carbon…JMHO

3 tons

I agree that additional incentives are unneeded. I believe it would be best to let the original plan come to an end as originally provided.

Although at some point I could see an additional pollution tax added to ICE vehicles or to the fuel they burn. Way too soon at this point but as EVs reach 50%+ of sales I could see this happening.

test

larry cad wrote:
I'm sorry, I don't get it! I was taught many years ago that trees need CO2 to produce oxygen. When did that change?

"Carbon dioxide is indeed plant food and more plant food means more plants, more forests"

When did CO2 become our enemy? Weird!

It’s just another one of those loosely substantiated and simplified narratives that gained sufficient grant funded traction to achieve wider ‘low fruit’ mass acceptance, thus the incubation of well meaning, ardent devotees (minus homework), while entirely dismissing (what’s gifted BTW the earth with it’s heavy elements nickel and above…) which is cosmic ray heating of the oceans and other contributing stellar factors…The now embedded ‘carbon warming’ theory, elevated to fact (carbon, a simplistic ‘one size fits all’ boogyman of convenience) is just one of a panoply of other peer-to-peer ideas (e.g. the coming Ice Age in the 70’s)…Truth is that the earth’s atmosphere is a yet to be understood complexity of complexities, and the simplicity called ‘carbon warming’ is only relative (despite conical sanction) to that which has preceded, and over some arbitrary span of time, thus the finding of redwood tree stumps at the arctic circle…But (by popular demand), discussions of a different paradigm have become pointless, recall “it’s a settled science, nothing to see here” - JMHO

3 tons

pianotuna wrote:

Timmo! wrote:
How many thousands of gallons of water are required to extinguish BEV fires?

How many lbs of heavy metals are released while BEV's roast like marshmallows? (Per Tesla advice of letting BEV fires burn out naturally).

Oh what tales we weave....

How many ice fires last year? 150,000. I think EV fires are much less of a problem.

Dealerships don't love BEV technology because there is so little to fix. No more oil changes, longer lasting brakes, and the like.

How is replacing "bad" ICE vehicles with an equivalent "bad" BEV progress? Especially at a significant financial premium?

We don't know what we "don't know". What is the salvage/recycle plan when replacing BEV lithium batteries (sourced from open pit mining operations) at the "end of life"--or every 10 or so years?

For us that have been around, do remember the promises made by the "alternative energy" elites about clean nuclear energy...problem was not the operations of nuke plants, but what to do with the nuke waste. What is the disposal plan for expired lithium batteries?

Many of us have seen this movie before.

Timmo! wrote:
How many thousands of gallons of water are required to extinguish BEV fires?

How many lbs of heavy metals are released while BEV's roast like marshmallows? (Per Tesla advice of letting BEV fires burn out naturally).

Oh what tales we weave....

How many ice fires last year? 150,000. I think EV fires are much less of a problem.

Dealerships don't love BEV technology because there is so little to fix. No more oil changes, longer lasting brakes, and the like.

How many thousands of gallons of water are required to extinguish BEV fires?

How many lbs of heavy metals are released while BEV's roast like marshmallows? (Per Tesla advice of letting BEV fires burn out naturally).

Oh what tales we weave....