DEF PRICE for those diesels need it

Aruba, there is a tank heater and below a certain temp it bypasses the def system for a certain amount of time for the tank to thaw.. I have a 2011 GMC and it has never gave me a 1000 mi warning, its always around the 300 mi mark of which i then add 3 gal. The poor quality thing is probably not the fluid itself but another issue such as the nox sensor. I would not be suprised if the poor quality message comes up again soon.

How does that work when the stuff is frozen solid. Yesterday I got the message that low DEF Range 224 miles. Must have thawed out. What happened to the 1000 mile warning. The 500 mile warning. Had the truck back 3 times for that system.
Bought some at the pump for $2.79 and a couple days later (DEF quality low, see instruction book) back to dealer for a drain and EXPENSIVE GM brand DEF. and from now on I only put in a gal at a time. NO big deal, always fresh.

Huntindog wrote:
The difference is not really the emissions level. As you all likely know, the Ram just went to DEF, so yes the emissions can be achieved without it. The difference is in economy and performance. Using a DEF system along with a particulate system allows the motor to use LESS EGR. This allows for better tuning and less EGR related problems such as sooted up turbos etc.

Carrying some around with you isn't really necessary as these systems don't use very much, AND the DEF has a shelf life, that shrinks when exposed to heat, such as the interior of a car parked in the sun on a summer day. If the DEF has deteriorated too much, the computer will basically reject it causing a expensive tank removal and flush needing to be done.
I just buy a 2.5 gallon jug at Wal Mart for about 11.00 and dump it in when I get the 1000 mile warning. It usually lasts about 3000 miles.

I personally not a fan of buying it at the pump. These systems are VERY sensitive to contamination. I don't feel that the cost savings for our small systems are worth the risk. I like the idea of a sealed bottle, and I am the only one that touches it..
All it would take at a pump is for the customer ahead of you to do something dumb, such as mistakenly drop the nozzle on the ground, or inserting it into a diesel tank contaminating for the next user.

I disagree, DEF is all about reduced emission levels.Dodge was forced to go to DEF because they used up all their emission credits and could not meet emissions requirements without it.
My manual says this about DEF,Your vehicle is equipped with a selective catalytic reduction (SCR)
system to help reduce emission levels of oxides of nitrogen from the
exhaust of the diesel engine. The system automatically injects diesel
exhaust fluid (DEF) into the exhaust system to enable proper SCR
function.

lenr wrote:
Non-DEF systems also have to run richer fuel mixture. Going to DEF NOx reduction saves more fuel $ than it costs DEF $. One by one you see manufacturers switching from EGR/Rich fuel to DEF.

There is no fuel mixture in diesel, running rich or not. It is not a stoychiometric motor requiring a fuel to air mixture ratio. It pumps more Oxygen and air into the motor, unrestricted or throttled, regardless of amount of fuel injected. To confirm this, you can coast in gear, slowing down, and note on a Scan Gauge 2 that your MPG goes to infinity. Also, you will hear no pinging or ignition until the motor gets within 200 rpm above idle rate, then it will start fueling again.

Nox is a byproduct of high combustion temperature and high oxygen content. Recirculating exhaust into the intake limits the amount of free oxygen, it's bonded to carbon in the form of carbon monoxide. That helps control the formation of more Nox. The other trick to control the combustion temperature is timing of the injection. Non SCR treated engines require retarded timing, thereby decreasing efficiency in the tune in the black box, and higher fuel consumption.

By going to a SCR system to treat the Nox in the exhaust system, more advanced injection timing that is far more efficient can be used, decreasing fuel consumption rates and increasing MPG. One need only look at a non SCR VW Jetta 2.0 TDI diesels MPG, and compare it to a SCR DEF bluetek tuned VW Passat 2.0 TDI, which weighs more, and has a wider stance and higher CD, yet gets better MPG, about 8%, and it weighs more also, at 3450 #'s

Non-DEF systems also have to run richer fuel mixture. Going to DEF NOx reduction saves more fuel $ than it costs DEF $. One by one you see manufacturers switching from EGR/Rich fuel to DEF.

The difference is not really the emissions level. As you all likely know, the Ram just went to DEF, so yes the emissions can be achieved without it. The difference is in economy and performance. Using a DEF system along with a particulate system allows the motor to use LESS EGR. This allows for better tuning and less EGR related problems such as sooted up turbos etc.

Carrying some around with you isn't really necessary as these systems don't use very much, AND the DEF has a shelf life, that shrinks when exposed to heat, such as the interior of a car parked in the sun on a summer day. If the DEF has deteriorated too much, the computer will basically reject it causing a expensive tank removal and flush needing to be done.
I just buy a 2.5 gallon jug at Wal Mart for about 11.00 and dump it in when I get the 1000 mile warning. It usually lasts about 3000 miles.

I personally not a fan of buying it at the pump. These systems are VERY sensitive to contamination. I don't feel that the cost savings for our small systems are worth the risk. I like the idea of a sealed bottle, and I am the only one that touches it..
All it would take at a pump is for the customer ahead of you to do something dumb, such as mistakenly drop the nozzle on the ground, or inserting it into a diesel tank contaminating for the next user.

DPF is carbon soot particulate that has been trapped in honeycomb like structure, and is burned off by late injection of diesel fuel on the exhaust stroke. Further down the exhaust system, separate metering is a SCR catalyst that is injected with heated up Urea/ water based DEF fluid which reduces NOx when sprayed on a catalyst.

DPF filter have pressure sensors fore and aft of the filter, measuring delta between the two. Too much variation/backpressure, and a burnoff is initiated by the Bosch EDC 17 "brain".

Both my 2012 Passat and 2013 Touareg TDI's use this system. VW's TDI Jetta, Golf, JSW and Beetle do NOT use AD BLU or DEF and SCR NOX reduction systems. No space in the body for 4+ gallons of DEF tank.


I buy my DEF in bulk 5 gallons at a time, at Truck stops, Pilots, Flying J, etc.... about $2.79 a gallon.

BTW, all of these systems require ULSD 15ppm or less sulfur in the fuel, something that may or may not be a requirement right now in Mexico.

2 liter no spill "Kruse" breather bottle available at most german car dealerships in the parts dept that is spill proof, for stupid money.

MEXICOWANDERER wrote:
This isn't a joke so please do not treat it as such.

I tried to do a search on Google to find an article that explains in clear detail the DIFFERENCE in particulate emissions between a new diesel using ULSD and particulate filter versus the same engine without the particulate filter which requires DEF. If anyone out there can point me in the right direction to an article with DATA on it, meaning numbers, I would appreciate it. Thank You.

The DEF doesn't replace the particulate filter it's in addition to it. After the 2010 requirements both are needed. The DEF is to reduce NOX and is not related to particulates. Some systems may put the hardware for both systems in the same device.

WallyWorld...............$11.00 for 2 1/2 gallons.

Thanks nevadanick.