Forum Discussion
time2roll wrote:
MEXICOWANDERER wrote:
I agree. Solar can give many areas energy independence. Tough pill to swallow for suppliers.
WE should be or the Mexican people should be manufacturing solar panels not China. Not Russia not Al Qaeda. Our biggest enemy is our government. The four horsewomen of the Apocalypse.
We could've had all the solar business at one time but politics got in the way and would not allow for the government to support it as a new industry.
The same fault with robotics we had them and gave away the technology to Japan and China.
We always lead to end up following.... check the history and find where the money went to stop us from advancing.... hint into politician's pockets.tomman58 wrote:
And don't forget about that 200 mpg carburetor not allowed by the fuel industry.time2roll wrote:
MEXICOWANDERER wrote:
I agree. Solar can give many areas energy independence. Tough pill to swallow for suppliers.
WE should be or the Mexican people should be manufacturing solar panels not China. Not Russia not Al Qaeda. Our biggest enemy is our government. The four horsewomen of the Apocalypse.
We could've had all the solar business at one time but politics got in the way and would not allow for the government to support it as a new industry.
The same fault with robotics we had them and gave away the technology to Japan and China.
We always lead to end up following.... check the history and find where the money went to stop us from advancing.... hint into politician's pockets.time2roll wrote:
MEXICOWANDERER wrote:
Some folks are in for a rude shock when reality hits the fan. Hundred dollar a month electrical bills soaring to seven hundred dollars and the cost per mile of fuel six hundred percent of what it is today.
Hundreds of thousands of acres of solar panels in places like the Mojave desert while the Chinese jump for joy and increase military spending ten thousand percent.
While the Russians tow gigantic nuclear plants to the arctic and Brazil runs ape**** with the worst pollution electrical generation while clearcutting the Amazon rain forest.
All I can say is down here we are on the outside of the fence watching the NIMBY's on the other side chant and newspapers headline events on San Francisco's HIPPIE HILL. Good night Chet -- Good night David.
Here is a rude shock... my ANNUAL electric bill was under $100 last several years.
This includes substantial power to charge my electric vehicle.
Yes I had to make an initial investment of which has paid equivalent return of 20% each year. Beats any bank CD or index fund that I know of.
And the panels are producing just fine after 6 years with a 30 year warranty.
Huuuuuhhhh??
You live in Southern California(?) and you don't need air conditioning hours and hours per day for days and days per year? If yes ... then how many acres of panels do you have on your property in order to offset this? If no ... then how do you put up with the summer heat? Also, how do you heat in the winter and how do you cook?
In addition, some of us have tried for years to reduce producing CO2 in support of our residences by installing a high efficiency heat pump to both heat it and cool it. I hate to think of how many panels I would need to install to offset the heat pump and all of our other appliances' electricity consumption. Plus ... even though we live on some acreage with maybe the room ... I'd have to sign up for a big 2nd-mortgage loan to have enough solar installed.
IMHO, the ultimate answer for the greatest number of people is to have huge solar and wind farms (and/or fusion reactors) feeding our existing distribution grid. However, this means that electric bills would be mostly made up of charges for maintenance of the distribution grid - not for raw electricity generation costs. That's the direction our electric bill has been headed for some time now.
P.S. Ignore everything I've said above if your situation is that you're living in an RV instead of a sticks-and-bricks residence. ;)- Phil,
Distributed generation, from my point of view, far better than huge solar plants.
If I had covered the roof of my home in Saskatchewan with panels I would have been able to provide all the electric needs of my home in a grid tied manner. Including air conditioning and in the winter time some heating (using a dump load). With a hybrid system (power wall for example) I would have been grid independent.
The Provincial electrical generation company (a crown corporation), is giving a credit based on their retail cost per KWH. The energy is first used by the home, and then any extra power creates a credit towards the bill. Of course, they still charge the other fees and taxes. Pay back, on a 1000 watt system (my brother is getting one August 2) is 5.7 years, assuming electrical rates don't go up. Right now they are 0.157 per KWH. If they do, then pay back would be even faster. As an added bonus, they will give him a grant of 20% of the installation costs.
He would not be interested in paying in taxes or rate increases for Saskpower to install solar. This way the money goes into his pocket.
For wind, centralization makes sense, because sooner or later major repairs may be needed. Those needs require specialized training far above what a local electrician may be able to provide. pnichols wrote:
Huuuuuhhhh??
You live in Southern California(?) and you don't need air conditioning hours and hours per day for days and days per year? If yes ... then how many acres of panels do you have on your property in order to offset this? If no ... then how do you put up with the summer heat? Also, how do you heat in the winter and how do you cook?
In addition, some of us have tried for years to reduce producing CO2 in support of our residences by installing a high efficiency heat pump to both heat it and cool it. I hate to think of how many panels I would need to install to offset the heat pump and all of our other appliances' electricity consumption. Plus ... even though we live on some acreage with maybe the room ... I'd have to sign up for a big 2nd-mortgage loan to have enough solar installed.
IMHO, the ultimate answer for the greatest number of people is to have huge solar and wind farms (and/or fusion reactors) feeding our existing distribution grid. However, this means that electric bills would be mostly made up of charges for maintenance of the distribution grid - not for raw electricity generation costs. That's the direction our electric bill has been headed for some time now.
P.S. Ignore everything I've said above if your situation is that you're living in an RV instead of a sticks-and-bricks residence. ;)
3 kW DC rated installed by Solar City six years ago. 12 solar panels on the roof with central grid tie inverter. About $17k installed and net cost after credit $12.5k. Avoids about $2,500 per year in electricity cost for a five year payback or 20% return. Cost to install would be much lower today but now it is paid for so no regrets.
I run the air conditioner from about March through October. I run the air on a program to chill the 3300 sq-ft house at night for better sleep and to chill the house to coast through the heat of the next day. This uses low cost overnight electricity and minimizes consuming during peak hours. Also the A/C is more efficient running in the cooler night air. Creates a natural daily cycle in the house.
Furnace burns natural gas. We also mostly cook on the gas range and avoid the electric oven. We use the oven more in the cooler months. Dryer is gas. Dishwasher is set with a timer to run overnight and runs virtually every night.
We have mostly LED lights and a few legacy CFLs. Most common used lights are LED with dimmers.
My last annual true up bill for net metering was $49.28. SCE provides the electric. This is the real deal.- Last night I see it got down to 79F and today it is headed to 92F WITH WITH WITH 85% relative humidity. The R/H at 4:00 AM was 90% which is almost condensing.
I don't understand if calculating energy demands is beyond your ability but for my little casita net price product-only no tax and no labor is one hundred twenty-six THOUSAND DOLLARS.
Panels, mounts, wire, inverters (multiple) and NO fifty-thousand-dollar electric car. 264% panel capacity are needed because the sun desn't shine after sundown and if you calculate stuff using summer solstice as a harvest base ----oh well.
Unless you live in sunbake AZ, there may be a solid week of storms.
Please do not hire-on with the government as a consultant.
Today's line-leader Sucker bait encouragement by utilities will eventually lead to power companies making 1000% more profit when everything is committed to alternative power generation and it inevitably falls short of the dreamer's calculations.
God, some of you are so gullible.
What is needed is a Manhatten size project to rush forward fusion generation. But lucily by then I will happily be feeding a tree. - $126,000 :E
In the US this would give you a system with 40 kW rating and power TEN homes at least.
What are you running an electric smelter?
My system is real. NOT a calculation.
(BTW all solar is powered by a fusion reactor up in the sky) - Tesla will set you up at $2 per watt.
https://electrek.co/2019/04/30/tesla-solar-undercutting-2-per-watt-system/ - Soooooo ... our home has a 200 amp service panel (power available 24/7 of course).
About how much solar paneling would need to be installed to equal this capacity for our home's location in coastal (i.e. some fog in the mornings and many clouds during the winter) central California?
I'll bet a lot ... and I mean for a simple system that merely feeds the existng grid ... as opposed to a full blown off-grid system with huge inverter and battery capacity.
By the way and FWIW, in how many locations in CA and other states will a newly built residence pass final building inspection when NOT connected to a public utility system?
As an aside and as I hinted at in earlier post - for the world to be all/mostly electricity powered we'll probably have to be much closer to a Type 1 civilization: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kardashev_scale - Phil,
$2 x 200 X 120 = $48,000
However it is unlikely that you need 24,000 watts of power. It may be that 1/3 to 1/6 would be enough for an adequate grid tied system.
