Electric vehicle charging cost

Like Al Gore going from $1,000,000 worth to $200,000,000 in 10 years because he is invested up to his nostrils in companies that benefit wildly from fellow legislator's mandates to reduce carbon footprint?

My take is BEWARE of unbalanced opinions about anything. Now TRY to counterpoint THAT opinion :)

The glass is half full

The glass is half empty

Engineer: The glass is twice as big as it needs to be.

But I, moi, have a question and I can only hope for an objective answer...

Have there been 100,000 Tesla's or Volts, or whatever sold to establish a REALITY MEDIAN lifespan for the batteries? Not electric car manufacturer sales pitch nor oil well owner opinion, but actual factual data. The answer should start off with a YES or NO?

Take a new TESLA. Drive it until it needs a battery. How much much does a new battery cost -- installed and car pointed out of the shop? STOP! I don't want to hear about a reclaimed or rebuilt battery. I've gotten screwed enough times trying out Asian "remanufactured" batteries. I want to know the price for NEW the car manufacturer's battery installed where the "shop" does not consist of blue plastic tarps.

And YES, to new petroleum car computer problems. Manufacturers are playing stupid not corrosion plating sensors or ECU connectors. Simple valuation of recycling gold flashed terminals would end the stupidity. That and ending the double digit IQ farce of mandated fragile connectors. It is INTENTIONAL. 80% of a dealership's profits are in service bays. Been there have audited it dept.

This debate reminds me of Mexican politics

Vote X for my candidate he will put us back to work _____ bitter argument

NO NO Vote for MY candidate. He will reduce crime _______ bitter argument

(The Candidate) "It's my turn, now, I am so close to winning the lottery!"

With electric versus petroleum the truth is submerged in horse pucky.

kerrlakeRoo wrote:

Cleaner for the environment seems a stretch, when you consider manufacturing especially the batteries and fueling, often from power provided by coal burning plants.

We must also consider the environmental costs of manufacturing an ICE--foundry smoke, mining operations, factory energy use, transportation costs for the myriad small parts that make up an ICE, all have an impact. Not to mention the significant environmental impact of oil extraction and refining operations, and transporting bulky liquid fuels to gas stations far away from refineries.

Hi kerrlakeRoo,

There are many electric cars with a range of 200 plus miles. For example the Kona from Hyundai will have a range of 250 miles (400 kilometers). It ain't no golf cart!

kerrlakeRoo wrote:
For city folk that seldom drive more than a few miles, they make sense in the same way a golf cart does.

I dont necessarily see the EV's as a bad thing. For city folk that seldom drive more than a few miles, they make sense in the same way a golf cart does.
Cleaner for the environment seems a stretch, when you consider manufacturing especially the batteries and fueling, often from power provided by coal burning plants.
The battery depreciation issue I think is reasonable in that the battery is basically a consummable with a continuiously shrinking life and value. If its $1000 a year, that is a substantial add on cost for a vehicle which recieves short distance usage due to recharging.
But the same can be said for the folks driving sports cars, higher fuel and maintenance cost are the price you pay for the style you want.

valhalla360 wrote:

drsteve wrote:

The article is misleading in that there is no mention whatsoever of the significant routine maintenance advantage enjoyed by electric cars. The author points to battery depreciation as being the big cost difference while ignoring that many conventional vehicles incur major engine or transmission repair costs within the ten year battery life span.

Hard to believe a guy who presents himself as a financial analyst specializing in the auto industry, i.e. an expert, would miss something like that.

I hear a lot of people talk about that but engine related maintenance and repairs...$20 oil change once or twice a year....and nothing else...suspensions, tires etc...those need repair and replacement regardless. If the EV has regenerative braking you might save a set of brake pads every 2-3 years.

This is fairly typical with modern ICE cars and is supported by the fact that I've yet to see an article that breaks down the costs on a statistically valid basis..it's all just generalizations like your comment.

Oil changes--where does one get a $20 oil change?--filters, brakes, random electrical sensor failures... fuel pumps, injectors, O2 sensors... ICE vehicles have very complex control systems that fail on a regular basis. I see a lot of "reasonably new" vehicles in repair shops. And again, if this guy is going to ding EVs for battery replacement ten years down the road and call it a deal breaker, while ignoring the many routine and not so routine costs of ICE vehicles and their enormously complex drivetrains, I'm going to call BS on it. He's not even close to impartial. He has an admitted interest in seeing Tesla stock fall.

garyemunson wrote:
It's looking more like electric car batteries are good for about 12 years so replacing batteries is pretty much on par with engine/transmission repair on an ICE vehicle.

Not even close for me. I tow a 13 year old Honda w/150k miles on it plus a little over 40k towed miles. The only engine/transmission work it has required is fluid changes. That is not at all out of line with other older cars I have owned (with the exception of a haunted Jag!). For that part of the population who cannot afford to buy new car, how can they afford to pay for a used electric car knowing the apx $2,000 battery could fail at any time? Does that mean used car prices will be in the tank for electric cars over 8-10 years old?

I don't have an electric car, but I think electric cars are inevitable. There likely will not be any further breakthroughs in ICE technology. They are about as good as they are ever going to get. And oil is only going to get harder to get.

Alternative energy will continue to grow, especially when the cost of carbon-based fuels rises more and more to make the alternatives financially attractive.

One day there will be solar cells covering every available square foot of building space.

For those who think electric cars don't last long.... Click on the "total miles" tab to change the sorting to highest miles.
https://www.voltstats.net/

Having driven electric going on 7 years (first a Volt, then a Caddy ELR) I will never go back. Don't give me the garbage about "cost analysis", driving electric is the biggest reward. No engine noise/vibration anymore. You may think your vehicle is smooth and quiet but that perception goes away once you ride in an electric car. Acceleration is like the hand of God shoving you down the road. Being retired, it's infrequent we drive more than about 45 miles per day so we rarely visit a gas station with our car. We recently installed solar panels on our house so now the sun does our charging. Even using our house power, at Reno NV power rates, it costs us about $1 to charge and that translates to about 45 miles of travel. Compare that with anything that burns gas. Do the math. In addition, vast numbers of businesses here (and across the country) have realized free charging stations are a good business strategy. Electric cars still cost more than ICEs so attracting electric car owners means you are getting people into your business who have more disposable income. Not a guarantee of more sales but most likely enough to more than pay for the equipment and electricity cost. It's looking more like electric car batteries are good for about 12 years so replacing batteries is pretty much on par with engine/transmission repair on an ICE vehicle. As we rarely use the ICE, maintenance is just an annual oil change and tire rotation. Electric vehicles have so little that needs attention. I'm amused at all the people with absolutely no experience with electric cars who seem to think they know so much about them.

That website is one where investors post opinion pieces.

From the article: "Disclosure: I am/we are short TSLA"

Faulty logic at it's worst,too, comparing a Tesla luxury car to economy cars. Compare it to a Lamborghini or a Jag and see how the cost to own compares.