GFCI necessary with Champion 2000 Watt Inverter Generator?

ScottG wrote:

tatest wrote:
What does the concept "ground fault" mean when your power source is not grounded?

A RV is grounded as an appliance when plugged in to shore power, via the ground wire in your power cord, which is supposed to be connected to the ground used by the power company.

Connected to a generator, is there a ground reference for the generator, if you don't drive a ground stake? Does a ground fault matter when the generator is not grounded?

Thinking about it this way, leads to no GFCI necessary, maybe?

As I understand it, the GFCI monitors current flow through the Hot and Neutral posts and shuts off flow if it see's more current flowing from Hot. When that happens it determines the flow of current isn't taking the correct path and must be going someplace else - like us!
Because of this it isn't necessary to have a ground with a GFCI.

true, you don't need a ground with a GFCI. And the picture is a great illustration of how a GFI circuit really works.

But there MUST be another path other than hot to neutral for current to flow to result in an unbalance.

However, from experience, since most generators don't have ground and neutral bonded, nor does the trailer have ground and neutral bonded,(if it is then there is a NEC code violation on the trailer) and your normally well insulated from ground, (as is the generator) it's highly unlikely that a GFCI will trip or protect anything since the only current path left is from hot to neutral.

One possible exception is if you somehow get across the hot of one branch circuit and the neutral of another branch circuit. Highly unlikely, but in this case the GFI may (should?) trip.

In fact, take a GFCI circuit tester, connect the generator to the trailer and fire it up. Then go inside and TRY to get a GFI to trip. In my trailer, neither the GFCI circuit tester nor pushing the GFCI test button on the GFCI in the trailer will trip the GFI when powered from my honda 2000. there just isn't a path for enough current to flow.

Even driving a ground stake won't necessarily solve the problem unless both the generator and trailer have a ground stake and the generator ground and neutral are bonded. If the generator only has a ground stake, for a GFI to trip there must still be a leakage path to earth ground from the trailer. stab jacks onto damp ground MAY work, but who knows.
Now if the generator has ground and neutral bonded
or your connected to a power pedistal then they will trip.

And yes, it is possible to get a good shock or even electrocuted even with a GFI outlet. If you are well insulated from ground (clean good dry rubber shoes, not enough stray capacitance or inductance to ground) and get directly across the hot and neutral such than there is not enough imbalance between the hot an neutral leg currents, the GFI won't trip and you may get electrocuted. Sounds pretty close to the situation your in when your powering your trailer from a generator with no ground/neutral bonding!!

Now in most "normal" cases your not likely to be that well insulated but it is possible, but a trailer powered from a generator isn't a "normal" case either.

Before you run out and bond the ground and neutral at the generator remember that if for some reason or fault the neutral gets elevated or swapped, then the trailer frame is HOT!

tatest wrote:
What does the concept "ground fault" mean when your power source is not grounded?

A RV is grounded as an appliance when plugged in to shore power, via the ground wire in your power cord, which is supposed to be connected to the ground used by the power company.

Connected to a generator, is there a ground reference for the generator, if you don't drive a ground stake? Does a ground fault matter when the generator is not grounded?

Thinking about it this way, leads to no GFCI necessary, maybe?

As I understand it, the GFCI monitors current flow through the Hot and Neutral posts and shuts off flow if it see's more current flowing from Hot. When that happens it determines the flow of current isn't taking the correct path and must be going someplace else - like us!
Because of this it isn't necessary to have a ground with a GFCI.

What does the concept "ground fault" mean when your power source is not grounded?

A RV is grounded as an appliance when plugged in to shore power, via the ground wire in your power cord, which is supposed to be connected to the ground used by the power company.

Connected to a generator, is there a ground reference for the generator, if you don't drive a ground stake? Does a ground fault matter when the generator is not grounded?

Thinking about it this way, leads to no GFCI necessary, maybe?

Well if your plugged into 30 or 50 amp there's no GFCI so I wouldn't be too concerned about it with a gen.

Jim-Linda wrote:
And we would know this how?

You wouldn't have.

And we would know this how?

Jim-Linda wrote:
I would think any RV would have factory GFI's if feeding with shore cord.

Jim

This isn't your typical RV :)

I would think any RV would have factory GFI's if feeding with shore cord.

Jim