Installing 2nd 30 amp 120vac circuit

"The problem with switching to a 50 amp service is that I often camp in campgrounds without 50 amp. If I use a 50 - 30 amp adapter, I will have the same lack of power problem."

Uh?

Campground have 2 independent power pedestal receptacles? Now I am confused enough to have to sit back and watch...

Yes all grounds connected to the frame.

MeandMyLabs wrote:
Op here,
The problem with switching to a 50 amp service is that I often camp in campgrounds without 50 amp. If I use a 50 - 30 amp adapter, I will have the same lack of power problem.

That is why I posted that you combine it with the cheater cord. Now you have 50A or 2 30A plugs.

Op here,
The problem with switching to a 50 amp service is that I often camp in campgrounds without 50 amp. If I use a 50 - 30 amp adapter, I will have the same lack of power problem.

This is why having two COMPLETELY SEPARATE 30 amp connectors will be better in my situation. The initial question is, should the new 30 amp load center have a green wire attached to the frame? No bond, no combination of circuits etc.

Your imput is truly appreciated here as I am still not 100% sure whether to frame ground or not.

OP

You're adding a "significant" second 30A circuit for a AC, plugs, etc. I think that is a mistake and you should replace the RV power with 50A power. You could then use a cheater cord for 2 30A pedestal plugs.

Bring the 50A into a new CB panel with a 30A CB for your present panel (which is now a sub panel) and additional CBs for the new wiring.

Let’s try this approach. You run a circuit from a neighbor’s house into your house. Do you connect the grounds of the two houses or not? Doubtful that there is any building code for connecting/not connecting the grounds but unlikely the code allows the second circuit.

So if we’re in violation of some building code which doesn’t apply to RVs what are the considerations for adding a second circuit?

Connecting the grounds means that you have a parallel circuit and should for some reason the ground is carrying a lot of current there could be more current on the 20A ground then the wiring supports. Not likely but under the right fault conditions…

If the grounds are not connected then there will be a small voltage potential between the grounds and under the right fault condition it could be larger. So someone touching both grounds perhaps through 2 appliances could get shocked. Again this is not likely…

If the grounds are not connected and the main cord is not plugged then it’s like you have an extension cord running inside. But under the right conditions you could have a leak to the frame which is not grounded. Again this is not likely… And if the second extension is plugged into a GFI it would trip with a ground fault.

I don’t see a right or wrong way for connecting the grounds given that bringing in the second circuit is “wrong”.

My second circuit is not grounded to the frame except when it’s plugged into the outside plug. And even then it’s a male/female plug connection and not a bonded ground.

It’s doubtful that I’ll bond the second circuit ground to the frame. In fact when I sell the rig I’ll fully disclose the circuit or better yet just remove it.

That said we had a lot of 30A sites this summer (Alaska trip) and that extra 20A for ceramic heaters was very nice.

Running the ceramic heaters was for me the main consideration as I don’t like to run anything that generates carbon monoxide while sleeping like HW or furnace. But I’m a risk taker and leave the refer on propane while boon docking! :B

Yes, the NEC covers RVs in Article 551.
A permit could be required. Doubtful, but some jurisdictions may require one.

x2.. you may not need a permit, but for liability sake I would stick with code compliance.

Question: What happens if you plug in circuit 2 without pluging in circuit 1?

If you don't run a safety ground, you don't have a safety ground.

Comment: I have seen a "Y" adapter for use in situtations like yours on a 50 amp site.

it consists of a 50 amp MALE plug and TWO 30 amp female outlets.

Sounds like just the ticket for that 50 amp site you mentioned.

MeandMyLabs wrote:
I am in the process of installing a 2nd 30 amp circuit in the garage of my TH. Mainly, all the wall receptacles are on 1-15 amp circuit and when I run my oxygen concentrator, I barely have enough power left for TV and definitely not enough for an electric heater. My plan is to install a second 30 amp 120vac entrance to two circuits. One circuit will be used for wall receptacles in the garage and one running to the counter. The second circuit will be designated for an additional ac in the garage area.

By installing a 2nd 30 amp entrance, I have more flexibility. I can of course connect with two 30 amp plugins if available or one entrance can be attached to the 50 amp (with the proper adapter) and the second to a 30 amp or I can use the 30 amp and 20 amp circuits with the appropriate adapter on the 20 amp. One other alternative I will have is using a 50 amp 240VAC and a Y adapter (which I have) for two 30 ampVAC circuits.

My question is, do I need to run a ground wire to the frame of the TH on my new entrance. I am guessing not but needing to be sure before finishing this job. Please, if you do not know the answer avoid speculation and you can learn along with the rest of us. Your help will be sincerely appreciated.

I have exactly what you are planning and it has been a god send to solving all my power limitations. On your specific question about grounding the second service to the frame it appears that it should be at least for the main service. Since we are talking about connecting the earth ground from the frame back to the main panel on the pedestal, I'm not sure what duplicating that bond in your second service gives you over what you already have since it runs back to the same main panel as your original 30 A service so I'm still not clear on the correct answer to your question, but grounding the second service to the frame can't hurt since it will only be basically duplicating what has already been done except that it will now provide a more direct ground path and that can't be bad. One very important and safety point is DO NOT bond the neutral to the ground in the distribution box in your TH since that is a definite NO NO. On reflection I can't remember if I did in fact ground my second service to the frame and is something I now need to double check and if missing it will be very simple to do.

Thus as of my posting I'm in the Camp that I'm not sure your actual question has gotten the correct answer yet. As I see it the issue is as it relates to a second 120A service being installed where the first service has been wired and grounded correctly.

I'll be watching to see if an answer is given with the reasoning or specific reference to something that covers this exact configuration is offered which as of my posting I haven't seen. Remember I'm not saying it isn't needed/required, just that I haven't seen what I considered a valid answer with justification yet.

Larry

I see the posts that my additional line (cord) should be grounded to the trailer and trust me, I am not doubting the need. I just don't get it. If I was using an extension cord from another source to do some work on the trailer or something like that, it would never think of needing another ground other that the one in the cord.

Please educate me, I'm listening.

Their may not be a perfect answer to this. I added a second circuit to the RV that plugs into one of the RV outside plugs - dedicated 20A. Or I can use an extension cord to a 20A plug somewhere when the main cord is connected to 20A or 30A. In my case the circuit is used for ceramic heaters. When used with the extension cord the circuit is completely independent of the RV ground. No doubt I'm violating some building code.