LED comparrison

If Mexican Customs does not riddle my car with bullet holes trying to pass with a trunk full of cargo. I'll post a report on using -genuine- 10 watt LED chips mounted on a 90 mm spiral heat sink. No way on earth they'll fit inside a standard RV fixture but minds more artistically inclined than mine may find a fixture. The difference between a genuine 10 watt chip and some of those SMD panels is a joke. This includes the 30 and 40 SMD panels which are supposedly the brightest. You know the ones that brag 10 watts but check out at 4.

In the house kitchen I am using a "warm white" 18 watt PAR type lamp. Unbelievably bright. The "warm" part makes eggs over easy, look orangish, but light intensity is incredible. No they did not have a white or cool white option.

Frankly I got tired of charred plastic fixture lenses, and 26 watt CFL's that start out with 10 watts of light. I'll give the nine dollar 26 watt GE CFL's to an appreciative neighbor. My place and my kid's place get LED's. Yeah, when it's 108F I just love pointing my IR gun at a CFL and seeing 172 degrees.

Apparently the LED industry is not completely standardized, meaning it's new technology and they don't all follow the same rules in manufacturing and advertising.

I went to homedepot a few months ago and noticed this "nutrition label" on the back of the led light. Went home to read up on it, it's called "lighting facts".

The brand was cree andthey are trying to standarzize the industry to address the specific issue of how many different companies jsut label whatever they want. But i used their lights since it's private labeled by home depot.

That being said, I don't know if there's a company that uses cree bulbs for car lights though...

And it's pricey...i've never paid $23 for a light bulb before...but it turns on instantly and is supposed to last forever...

Crossing my fingers.

myredracer wrote:

You seem to know your lighting stuff. Is there any way for the typical consumer to decide what to buy in terms of light output vs number if SMDs and maybe wattage/current? How truthful or realistic are lumen output claims between sellers or manufacturers? Are there better quality LEDs that would be a better choice?

I'm still learning. And this technology is changing. Westend and others pretty much answered the question - number of diodes for the same total lumens can vary because the board can be running a higher or lower current.

What an average consumer should remember, is that his old 18-20W bulb has output about 300 lumens and color temperature 3000K. Most LED sellers specify both lumens and color temperature.

For a particular seller that I mentioned, 300 lumens would be a board with 24*5050 or 48*1210, unless otherwise specified. If you go through their inventory, some boards are labeled "super bright", and then they have either higher lumens per same number of diodes or a lower number of diodes per same total lumens.

How truthful? Hm... This is China, QC has never been their strong side. Lumens claims are mostly truthful, but you might run into a bad batch (or a seller). Color varies more often.

Lumens per watt? For LED it's about 70-90. Depends on the color too.

There are no quality brands in this pile. Seems like every rice farmer now is cobbling up either LEDs or solar panels in his shack :)

tenbear wrote:

westend wrote:
LED packaging
The 2835 LED chip has just about the same footprint as a 3528 but can take a lot more current, hence, more light output.

I stand corrected. :S

Live and learn. Thanks for the correction.

Don't feel like you're the only guy that's confused with LED configurations. The market for LED lighting, now, is like trying to find the correct replacement spark coil for a 1910 Ford (in 1910). There are too many packaging and output differences for anyone to make a decision on what is going to work best by looking at specifications.
BTW, I know you've contributed a lot to the Forum about LED lighting and to that, thank you!

It was asked if the number of SMD's can be used as an indicator of lumens. Yes, roughly, if the same SMD's are compared. Even the same count of alike SMD's may not be identical for application if using lenses or fixtures with a reflector, like reading lights.

As has been mentioned in other threads about LED replacements, it's wise to buy a few from different vendors in different configurations and compare attributes before buying the total quantity needed. I've found that what doesn't work in one area is a good fit for another so even the minimal cost isn't wasted.

LED's can be driven harder than others, so the actual number of LEDs on any given light is not going to accurately represent the actual output.

Also the batches tend to vary greatly in output and light color. I've got a few dozen unused t10/ wedge base bulbs of the 168/194/921 variety, as I was seeking lots of light without Blue, but not warm either, as the warm white LED seems too artificial for me.

I kind of got sick of buy and try and the disappointment that would set in, and decided to give a name brand LED a try, Phillips in the 4000k color

While not the brightest LED I have, they are a very good color, and for just one SMD, firing forward, it is a pleasing light.

All my other t10 wedge base LED bulbs are now unused.

The only 1156 phillips I see are 6000k "xenon white" which are probably bluish.

http://www.amazon.com/Philips-12898X2-X-treme-Vision-Backup/dp/B00H8ZX7K0

Almot wrote:

Equivalent brightness to 20W incandescent is 24 diodes of 5050 size each, or 48*1210. Also, watch lumens - some boards can be high-current, and then they more lumens with the same number of diodes. But mostly it's 24-5050.

You seem to know your lighting stuff. Is there any way for the typical consumer to decide what to buy in terms of light output vs number if SMDs and maybe wattage/current? How truthful or realistic are lumen output claims between sellers or manufacturers? Are there better quality LEDs that would be a better choice?

I'm just trying to find a couple of LED spot or flood lamp style to replace the incandescent lamps in an aircraft style reading light and not having much luck finding useful info.

Terms like candlepower, footcandles and lux aren't outdated terms, it's that they are useful info. to lighting engineers but not the average consumer. Lumen output is what you want to look at. I just bought a couple of recessed "puck" style lights under our kitchen cabinet rated at 360 lumens and they are pretty bright which is what I wanted. I'm guessing that 250 lumens would be okay for you but may depend on what surface or area you are trying to illuminate and what type of light fixture it's in.

Another comparison is that I just installed 5 new LED light fixtures in our kitchen/dining/sitting area to replace the LED pancake lights that came in our TT. They are rated 300-315 lumens (4.67 watts) and have 39 small SMDs. They provide approx. the same level of light of the old lights which have 12 large SMDs. Either light fixture provides an "okay" lighting level overall but not they're not terribly bright (not to be confused with the term "brightness").

The number of SMD diodes doesn't mean much either. I suspect that there is a wide variation of efficiency in LEDs and the fixtures they are in. There doesn't seem to be any industry standards either which can make it difficult to decide what to buy. I don't think you can go wrong though with the cheapie, made in Ch*na LEDs. If they don't work for you, you're not out of pocket much to change them out.

MEXICOWANDERER wrote:
They put out as much light as a $1.99 25SMD panel but the light is bluer.

You probably got "bright white" or "cool white" color temperature.

Yes, that 2835 board is odd. I used to think that there was 5050 at 14 lumen/watt, 1210 at 7 L/W, and 3528 being the same as 1210. I guess, it's never late to learn.

Back to the OP: it is close to 18W incandescent, not 20W. Old 18W is approximately 290 lumens. Color temperature for that LED is a big unknown. When they don't specify, it's - usually - warm white, a color close to incandescent, but there is no way to tell.

Here is some from Ebay. No regulator, so there is no radio noise. If you click on the "Visit Store", and then dial in search 1156 or 24-5050, or 48-1210, you'll get more, and in 10Xpacks, and in cob shape or round boards.

Equivalent brightness to 20W incandescent is 24 diodes of 5050 size each, or 48*1210. Also, watch lumens - some boards can be high-current, and then they more lumens with the same number of diodes. But mostly it's 24-5050.

Also, watch color temperature. When this seller says not "warm white" but "white", it's a wrong term because he really means "cool white" 7000K, which is cooler/bluer than incandescent 3500K. There should be just "white" around 5000 between warm and cool, but they don't have it.

No affiliations, Tom - 2 post above - and some other members bought from there, but there are many others sources too. No need to remind of slow boat from China - could be few weeks, a month, or longer.

I paid

A LOT OF MONEY

For "Genuine 7 watt CREE 1156 bulbs" from a USA CREE dealer

They check out wonderfully at 2.6 watts at 12.0 vdc

They put out as much light as a $1.99 25SMD panel but the light is bluer.

I replaced several of my incandescent bulbs with LEDs last year and here's a link to my results:
LED install

The LEDs are holding up well. No failures yet.