Lithium 12 volt battery Is there a clear leader?

Do they have serviceable BMS? Built-in is not necessarily serviceable. Nobody is answering this.

Doubt it. Why would anyone mass produce something like that?

Cydog15, Drop in batteries with bms are just that a drop in sealed unit. They come with some sort of warranty. Here is the warranty from Lifeblue and would think all drop in batteries have a similar warranty.

If you want serviceable equipment you better get prismatic cells and build from scratch.

Lifeblue warranty:
10 Year Limited Warranty:
LiFeBlue Battery (hereafter LiFeBlue) warrants each LiFeBlue branded Lithium Ion battery sold by LiFeBlue or any authorized dealers or distributors, to be free of defects from the date of sale. Subject to the conditions listed below, LiFeBlue will repair or replace the battery or parts of the battery if deemed by us to be defective in materials or workmanship.
LiFeBlue warrants the battery to be free from defects in materials and workmanship for 60 months from the date of purchase. This Limited Warranty is to the original purchaser and is not transferable.
This Limited Warranty does not cover batteries sold by LiFeBlue or any authorized distributor or dealer to an Original Equipment Manufacturer (OEM). Please contact the OEM directly for warranty claims.

Application and Use:
LiFeBlue batteries are designed to be used as deep cycle batteries. They may be used for off grid energy storage, recreational vehicles, boats, industrial or other deep cycle use. LiFeBlue batteries are not designed for engine starting but may be used to supplement engine starting.

Warranty Procedure:
For any Warranty claim, first contact LiFeBlue with the details of your claim. LiFeBlue will make the arrangements for battery shipment to our service facility to assess the battery. We will determine the cause of failure and whether it is repairable.
If the failure is determined by us to be warrantable and the battery is repairable, it will be repaired and returned to you. If it is not repairable, we will replace the battery within the first 60 months from the date of purchase.

Additional Warranty Policy:
After 60 months and up to 120 months from the date of purchase, if the failure is determined by LiFeBlue to be caused by defect in material or workmanship, and the battery is reasonably repairable as determined by us, it will be repaired and returned to you. If it is not deemed repairable by us, LiFeBlue will offer you a new, similar replacement battery discounted by 30% off the concurrent price listed on the LiFeBlue website. The replacement offer will only be valid for 30 days after notification.

Not Covered by This Warranty:

1. LiFeBlue has a built in energy management system (EMS) designed to disconnect power to prevent damage to the cells or electronics if it senses any of the following conditions:

Over-charge or Over-discharge, over voltage, under voltage, over current while charging or discharging and over temperature. The user is responsible to manage battery use so the EMS protection system is not operating as a regulator controlled by the afore mentioned protective functions. Damage caused by repetitive EMS protection cycling is considered abuse and is not covered.

2. LiFeBlue is not obligated to warrant a battery if failure is related to damages caused by abuse or negligence, tampering, non-adherence to LiFeBlue guidelines or from any of the following: a) Damage from shipping, b) Loose terminal bolts, c) Corroded hardware, d) Failure to properly install and connect the battery, e) Failure to properly charge and maintain the battery, f) Breakage or damage from collision, fire, freezing, damage from extreme heat or cold, improper storage, reverse polarity connection, short circuit of the battery terminals or water damage.

3. LiFeBlue warranty is void if the battery case has been opened.

4. LiFeBlue does not cover worn out batteries. It is possible to use up the battery life prior to the end of Warranty period by using the battery for more than 1.5 cycles per day. A worn
out battery will have less than 60% remaining capacity.

5. Shipping cost to and from LiFeBlue repair facility is not covered by this warranty unless LiFeBlue is contacted with a warranty claim within 30 days after the purchase date.

6. Shipping cost to and from LiFeBlue repair facility will not be covered during the first 30 days for any address outside the 48 CONUS states or to any address prohibited by the requirements of 49 CFR and/or UN 3480 rules.

pianotuna wrote:
Hi Mex,

Price.

https://www.ebay.ca/itm/202396378794 $1350 Cdn for 200 amp-hours @ 12 volts.

Not what Mex wants (as it turned out), but this is half the price. Probably unknown Chinese import, and even then this is very cheap. Does it work ;)?

"Marine", they say... Pelican-looking case is obviously not a Pelican and could easily become a bathtub, not to mention water-friendly connectors hanging on the outside. 1 digital point voltmeter is a joke for Li discharge curve, give us Bluetooth SOC monitoring please.
Still, nice price.

Edit-PS: possible caveat: they don't show what's inside that black box. Ebay and Aliexpress are full of Li batteries that have no hard enclosure, individual cells are wrapped in some sort of shrink-wrap, for cost-cutting:

Itinerant1 wrote:
Here is the warranty from Lifeblue and would think all drop in batteries have a similar warranty.

Did anybody here try Lifeblue? They are unique in that it has Bluetooth SOC monitoring.
Victron offers this feature too, I would trust this brand, only don't see anybody in the US selling them yet.

Almot wrote:

Itinerant1 wrote:
Here is the warranty from Lifeblue and would think all drop in batteries have a similar warranty.

Did anybody here try Lifeblue? They are unique in that it has Bluetooth SOC monitoring.
Victron offers this feature too, I would trust this brand, only don't see anybody in the US selling them yet.

On another rv forum site there are folks using the lifeblue with bluetooth soc and when trying to charge at a lower voltage (13.9-14.2) instead of the manufacturer recommended (14.4-14.6) it does throw off the % soc, after using the higher recommended voltage the soc resets back to near accuracy.

Why don't these series cells use individual cell charging voltage. It is stupid to the extreme to deal with 14 volts when cell voltage is a third that. Also stupid is a 300 cycle lifespan when an AGM renders double that. I smell a rat... Voltage buckers DO NOT CARE about two-tenths of a volt unless it is on the upper or lower threshold. If the thing TRACKS a much higher supply potential then the charger is a farce.

This is why in my post I suggested a Meanwell power supply that can be adjusted down to individual cell voltage. Then let the individual cell management circuits deal with it.

500 cycle life yield 50% storage lifespan and a demand for exact charger voltage.

This adds up to be a stinker.

"Ha ha we fu you!" is not my cup of tea...

Mex I'm sure it is controlled on the individual cell level to some degree how ever the manufacture has it programmed with their bms. 100ah (12v) contains 4 cells.
Here an example of cell SOC tracking/ resetting of my 500ah batteries (20 cells).

This is an email response from Elite GBS... The EMS system has a minimum recorded resolution of +/- 0.5A so any current below that level is not accounted for. The system could be setup for a finer resolution, but the shunt value would have to be reduced which reduces the systems maximum current capability. 

The system will reset the capacity to 100% whenever the pack voltage reaches 3.49 to 3.52 V/cell on average, depending on how it was programmed, and the pack current must be negative (charging) and typically under 35A and then it will set the capacity to 100%. Again, these are all firmware variables  so it's possible your system was programmed differently. You should continue charging after this point until the battery truly is full to have the reference point of 100% be correct. 

If you have many small loads that are not accounted for then you would occasionally need to re-sync the pack with 100%. The frequency at which you have to do this will vary depending on your application and usage.

From what I've seen on the insides, they don't use a voltage "buckers". they just rely on narrow conductors, internal resistance and a limited charging supply.

When the cell hits Vmax a mosfet on the BMS bypasses it. That stresses the mosfet, which is why a user replaceable BMS would be nice, but it's not practical for a mass produced battery.

these ar the specs for the battery i posted

SPECIFICATIONS: Dimensions: 5.94x2.55x3.74 in (151x65x95 mm). Weight: 2 lbs 14 oz (1.30 kg).
Capacity: 10 ampere hours.
Lifecycles: Up to 80% capacity for 2,000 cycles in recommended conditions. (Typical SLA has 400 cycles)
. Terminals: F2 terminals 0.25 in. wide (6.35mm)
Discharge: 15 A max continuous, 60 A max 2-second pulse. 9.2 V max discharge, 11 V max recommended discharge.
For longest lifetime recommended discharge rate 1-5 Amps. {three in parallel equal 15amps load and long life}
Charge: 10 A max, 14 V max recommended, 15 V max. Compatible with most SLA chargers.
Operating temperature: Min:-20 F (-29 C) Max:120 F (49 C) . Max recommended environmental operating much better than SLA or other lithium s.
Includes active BMS protection circuit for increased performance and longer life.
SKU:ADIB00JK06CK8