LIthium battery upgrade - Complete!

My issue other than for cold weather is NOT the chemistry nor the performance.

Throw the price out the window. For now.

My issue is with an insane amount of electronics and electrical needed to manage a battery bank. Yeah, the Jim Varney syndrome...

Electrical power management reliability. Anyone want to (lose) argue the complexity failure ratio syndrome?

How many (dozens?) of lithium battery packs do I now have that have had a cell controller go bad and destroy a cell? Reliability is increased by throwing lots and lots of money at an electrical power control issue. Intense design, prototypes, stressing, and then the final test. The BS proofing of any electrical control circuit.

Thousands and thousands of guinea pigs running around in the real world. Mocking hyperbole. Establishing reality.

Many decades ago a "comfortable" shipyard owner showed me a solid platinum time piece that sported a dozen Burmese "pigeon blood" rubies. The highest grade on earth. For the life of me, I could not tell his one o:clock from my one o:clock.

Wouldn't it be wonderful if someone could come up with a lithium battery that did not self destruct because of Shirley Temple grade sensitivity to degrees of charge - that could continue to work in lower temperatures, and not need a replica of Space Shuttle Discovery's power management system?

Folks hoot about weight savings, then add an extra ton of lead ballast to the keel of their ketch, or stuff side compartments with stuff that they'll never use.

Meanwhile I really should go home and "harvest" those failed cells. That's another buzzword I love. "Recover" is not cool ya know...

Wikel wrote:
$3,500 for 12v 300AH.... ouch.

I've been exploring using 4 of these to make a 12v nominal bank. $1,500 vs. $3,500.

What's missing is some type of BMS (to handle over/under voltage and temp sensor shutdown). This looks to be built into the RELiON by default but that's something that can be added for a lot less than $2,000 for sure.

You didn't look at the rest of that site. They have a complete BMS with a bluetooth link for <$300, plus a system controller for about the same price. Add in a few contactors and you're golden.

https://www.ev-power.eu/Battery-Management/123-Smart-BMS-Complete-Set-4-cells-with-Bluetooth-4-0.htmlhttps://www.ev-power.eu/Battery-Management/123-Smart-BMS-Complete-Set-4-cells-with-Bluetooth-4-0.html

https://www.ev-power.eu/Battery-Management/123-Smart-BMS-Extended-Module.htmlhttps://www.ev-power.eu/Battery-Management/123-Smart-BMS-Extended-Module.html

That would keep the total price at about $2k, which is pretty good for a complete 300Ah system.

$3,500 for 12v 300AH.... ouch.

I've been exploring using 4 of these to make a 12v nominal bank. $1,500 vs. $3,500.

What's missing is some type of BMS (to handle over/under voltage and temp sensor shutdown). This looks to be built into the RELiON by default but that's something that can be added for a lot less than $2,000 for sure.

Are you charging in parallel? (sorry I didn't read the whole thing)

Airmon wrote:
I believe RELiON and Smart battery to be exactly the same thing, down to the rope handles.

Throw Nexgen in there too.

One other interesting thing about RELiON ( and, I'm assuming, Smart batteries ) is that you can get them repaired.
If you have cells that have failed, a bad BMS or a cracked case/terminal you can have any of those parts replaced by a service center.

The folks I got my batteries from had two more used 200Ah batteries, but one of them had failed cells from a bad BMS. The BMS had been replaced to put the battery back into service and if it were sold to a new owner, the cells can be replaced to bring its capacity back up to nominal.

I believe RELiON and Smart battery to be exactly the same thing, down to the rope handles. I can't prove that, but the battery sizes, apparent construction, specs and everything but the lables.

Charging in Series
The Relion batteries are built something like 4s20p
As in 4 in series and 20 in parallel = 80 cells per sealed up "12vdc" battery
You will always be charging in series
My guess is that the Relion is very similar to the "Smart" Battery
Check out what makes up the "battery"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MEe_F9jY-cM

2oldman wrote:

RJsfishin wrote:
And 2ndly, why do it that way ?

Because Li batteries don't seem to like being charged in a series string. I'm wondering if I can properly charge each 12v battery as I've described.

If the balancing act is that important to you, then just buss bar them together, using 4 wires of equal length for the positive, same for the negative.

RJsfishin wrote:
And 2ndly, why do it that way ?

Because Li batteries don't seem to like being charged in a series string. I'm wondering if I can properly charge each 12v battery as I've described.