I emailed morning star about the topic and this is there response.Morningstar Corp. Tech Support via 2v4xqg71s4mcvgo6.4x8azg5z2ljisu01.qn4ugr2.3-oneaeai.na13.bnc.salesforce.com 1:45 PM (2 hours ago) to me ??what is meant by battery management system . ??and does it mean the float and equalizing function not needed?Thanks Ron Two main types of Lithium batteries: Lithium ion: With some system modifications, lithium-ion batteries can be used with Morningstar MPPT controllers (TriStar and SunSaver). The battery bank must have a built-in or connected battery management system to monitor cell voltages. Further, the battery management system must NOT have an automatic full charge disconnect feature that breaks the controller connection to the battery. The controller will not operate without a power source. Finally, the controller needs to be programmed / set to disable the float and equalization stages so that current to maintain absorption voltage will be available at all times. LiFePo4: Even though Morningstar controllers are designed for use with lead-acid batteries, lithium iron-phosphate batteries can be used successfully with programmable units. If using this battery technology, please check with the manufacturer for recommended set-points and current restrictions. Any diversion function would require a separate Diversion Controller, such as the TS-PWM controller.what is meant by battery managemwhat is the ent system ...and does it mean the float stage and the equalize stage are not used

I can see it all unfolding as I write this"Dang! And here I thought the dip switches were set to 0100110"

Lithium Ion batteries require a Battery Management System (BMS). LI batteries can be permanently damaged from overcharging or over-discharging. The BMS prevents overcharging, over-discharging and performs cell balancing. BMS's can do other stuff but that's the minimum.MEXICOWANDERER wrote:I can see it all unfolding as I write this"Dang! And here I thought the dip switches were set to 0100110"MEX the Tesla caught fire because the battery pack was penetrated by road debris. That damage you see in the pic was caused by the debris. Also, Tesla batteries are LiCo not LiFePo4. TOTALLY different chemistries although in the same "family".

Those darn "DIP SWITCHES" Sure hate to see folks purchase a nice new high end controller and simply set a few switches and call is good

Deleted - Double post from this darn site happens all the time

Rmcgrath53 wrote:I emailed morning star about the topic and this is there response.Morningstar Corp. Tech Support via 2v4xqg71s4mcvgo6.4x8azg5z2ljisu01.qn4ugr2.3-oneaeai.na13.bnc.salesforce.com 1:45 PM (2 hours ago) to me ??what is meant by battery management system . ??and does it mean the float and equalizing function not needed?Thanks Ron Two main types of Lithium batteries: Lithium ion: With some system modifications, lithium-ion batteries can be used with Morningstar MPPT controllers (TriStar and SunSaver). The battery bank must have a built-in or connected battery management system to monitor cell voltages. Further, the battery management system must NOT have an automatic full charge disconnect feature that breaks the controller connection to the battery. The controller will not operate without a power source. Finally, the controller needs to be programmed / set to disable the float and equalization stages so that current to maintain absorption voltage will be available at all times. LiFePo4: Even though Morningstar controllers are designed for use with lead-acid batteries, lithium iron-phosphate batteries can be used successfully with programmable units. If using this battery technology, please check with the manufacturer for recommended set-points and current restrictions. Any diversion function would require a separate Diversion Controller, such as the TS-PWM controller.what is meant by battery managemwhat is the ent system ...and does it mean the float stage and the equalize stage are not usedLithium batteries HATE to be over charged, HATE being over discharged, HATE having too much current drawn, HATE being force fed too much charge current.Hence as to why they REQUIRE a BATTERY MANAGEMENT SYSTEM which monitors each cell voltage, current and such..The management system will shut off current in the even of over discharge, over charge, too high of charge voltage and so on..Run without this protection and the result is nothing short of a spectacular 2300F degree fire..Unless you really have top notch understanding of all the charge/discharge parameters of Lithium batteries it is best to leave them in profession hands..Perhaps another 10 or 15 yrs they will find better ways to deal with the potential hazards but not as of yet..

Lthium charged with mppt controler | Good Sam Community

MEXICOWANDERER
Explorer
Jan 15, 2015
I can see it all unfolding as I write this

"Dang! And here I thought the dip switches were set to 0100110"
mena661
Explorer
Jan 15, 2015
Lithium Ion batteries require a Battery Management System (BMS). LI batteries can be permanently damaged from overcharging or over-discharging. The BMS prevents overcharging, over-discharging and performs cell balancing. BMS's can do other stuff but that's the minimum.

MEXICOWANDERER wrote:
I can see it all unfolding as I write this

"Dang! And here I thought the dip switches were set to 0100110"
MEX the Tesla caught fire because the battery pack was penetrated by road debris. That damage you see in the pic was caused by the debris. Also, Tesla batteries are LiCo not LiFePo4. TOTALLY different chemistries although in the same "family".
KJINTF
Explorer
Jan 15, 2015
Those darn "DIP SWITCHES"

Sure hate to see folks purchase a nice new high end controller and simply set a few switches and call is good
KJINTF
Explorer
Jan 15, 2015
Deleted - Double post from this darn site happens all the time
Gdetrailer
Explorer III
Jan 15, 2015
Rmcgrath53 wrote:
I emailed morning star about the topic and this is there response.

Morningstar Corp. Tech Support via 2v4xqg71s4mcvgo6.4x8azg5z2ljisu01.qn4ugr2.3-oneaeai.na13.bnc.salesforce.com

1:45 PM (2 hours ago)

to me

??what is meant by battery management system . ??and does it mean the float and equalizing function not needed?

Thanks
Ron

Two main types of Lithium batteries:

Lithium ion: With some system modifications, lithium-ion batteries can be used with Morningstar MPPT controllers (TriStar and SunSaver). The battery bank must have a built-in or connected battery management system to monitor cell voltages. Further, the battery management system must NOT have an automatic full charge disconnect feature that breaks the controller connection to the battery. The controller will not operate without a power source. Finally, the controller needs to be programmed / set to disable the float and equalization stages so that current to maintain absorption voltage will be available at all times.

LiFePo4: Even though Morningstar controllers are designed for use with lead-acid batteries, lithium iron-phosphate batteries can be used successfully with programmable units. If using this battery technology, please check with the manufacturer for recommended set-points and current restrictions.

Any diversion function would require a separate Diversion Controller, such as the TS-PWM controller.

what is meant by battery managemwhat is the ent system ...and does it mean the float stage and the equalize stage are not used

Lithium batteries HATE to be over charged, HATE being over discharged, HATE having too much current drawn, HATE being force fed too much charge current.

Hence as to why they REQUIRE a BATTERY MANAGEMENT SYSTEM which monitors each cell voltage, current and such..

The management system will shut off current in the even of over discharge, over charge, too high of charge voltage and so on..

Run without this protection and the result is nothing short of a spectacular 2300F degree fire..

Unless you really have top notch understanding of all the charge/discharge parameters of Lithium batteries it is best to leave them in profession hands..

Perhaps another 10 or 15 yrs they will find better ways to deal with the potential hazards but not as of yet..
mena661
Explorer
Jan 15, 2015
Gdetrailer wrote:

Run without this protection and the result is nothing short of a spectacular 2300F degree fire..

Unless you really have top notch understanding of all the charge/discharge parameters of Lithium batteries it is best to leave them in profession hands..

Perhaps another 10 or 15 yrs they will find better ways to deal with the potential hazards but not as of yet..
Guys get off the everything catches fire trip already! LiFePo4 will NOT catch fire the moment you overcharge! All Lithium Ion are NOT the same for the 10000000000000000000 time! Do some friggin research! Some folks on the DIY EV forum have deliberately overcharged their LI batts and absolutely ZERO caught fire (there was physical damage to the cases...bulging). You would literally have to GROSSLY overcharge them for hours and hours and hours, maybe even days, well past physical damage to the batts themselves AND your batteries BMS system would have to fail at the same time to allow this to happen. Here's a fun fact, you and I CANNOT buy the LI batteries that are used in cars, cell phones, laptops, or the Boeing 787. The LI batts we'd used are LiFePo4 which have totally different characteristics than those used in the vehicles and electronics I mentioned.
time2roll
Nomad
Jan 15, 2015
You need to contact the battery manufacturer to get charging specs and details of the battery management system. Morningstar makes the solar controller not the battery.
mena661
Explorer
Jan 15, 2015
Oh yeah, another thing. Disable the temperature compensation on the solar controller.
Ductape
Explorer
Jan 15, 2015
Mena is right, I don't recall seeing a lot of reports of flaming consumer electronics and lithium is everywhere. BMS are commonplace. Just needs to scale up to RV sized systems as the price points change. It won't take too long as soon as the economic math makes it desirable.
jrnymn7
Explorer
Jan 15, 2015
The only issue I see is cell matching... and that starts with the manufacturer and distributor. Provided the cells are well matched, the BMS will have to do little more than monitor. I have seen it described as the last line of defense, not the first.

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