New controller? Looks like it was added today.

Ok thanks, a glimmer seen anyway! :) I also had a lot of trouble understanding that the Trimetric does not show the "net" amps, but just what the batteries are getting.

In the afternoon if solar is 8 amps and the Tri shows 3, you can run 5 more for something but the Tri still shows 3. I thought before that the 3 showing was the net of 8-5 until it was explained (I needed to be hit on head with a 2 by 4 a couple times, but it got through) the 3 was all battery and the other 5 just wasn't showing anywhere. (except it would on show on a solar monitor)

So now instead of seeing 8 upstream of the Tri on the solar and 3 on the Tri, so you know the solar is doing another 5 for something, you get 3 on the whizbang going back to the controller that already has the 8, and it does the calculation showing that 3 of the 8 is for battery.

Whew! (unless I got that wrong too! )

I won't try to figure out just now what happens if the battery will accept 3, the solar can do 8 and you turn on a load that needs 10.
(the Tri would show minus 2 I think )

lorelec wrote:
Blue Sky has been doing this for a long time with various add-ons to their controllers

Which add-ons?

Unyalli wrote:
Up until now this was all they knew.
Don't forget the ending amps functionality as well.

Blue Sky has been doing this for a long time with various add-ons to their controllers (and I think Apollo does, too). And many controllers have the capability of terminating the absorb stage by either time or net current. Rolls recommends timing the absorb stage, and include a calculation in their manual to determine length of time. So long as your battery can hold the absorb voltage for that length of time, you will be very close to 100% SOC. Or so the theory goes.

BFL13 wrote:
I can't see how that makes it differentiate how many amp hrs went into battery charging vs just running things as 'extra solar' in the afternoon.

All intelligent solar controllers know how much power they are producing and have produced. Up until now this was all they knew. You could connect a computer to the controller and download historical data and also watch the system real time. Thing was you had no idea how much of that power went to the batteries and how much to loads unless you calculated the data from the solar controller and bounced it off the data from the trimetric. With the shunt monitor (wizbang) we can now have the solar controller do all this. The solar controller can now know how much total power it's producing AND how much of this power is going to the batteries.

Don't forget the ending amps functionality as well.

-Jeff

The more I look at that monitor attachment to a shunt, the more confused I get. I can see how it would act like a Trimetric. The blurb says it measures amperage or energy.

I can't see how that makes it differentiate how many amp hrs went into battery charging vs just running things as 'extra solar' in the afternoon.

And I can't see how, with the rest of the rig across the shunt, how it would know how much is solar and how much is the rest of the rig, anymore than the Trimetric can tell how much of what goes across its shunt that day was solar.

Meanwhile I am now confused about what all those solar monitors are doing now 'the old way' Some have shunts and some don't. Even my $34 Solar30 PWM controller with no shunt has a readout for amps and another readout for accumulated AH. Where does it get the information to provide those readings? I ASSume it can't tell how much of that is going to the battery and how much to run other stuff as well.

Plus it is not like the batteries are just soaking up solar charging all day. They also have draws of varying amounts at the same time. You need a shunt to be able to count AH going both ways and get a net amount.

I hope to figure out some of that when I get to use the controller ammeter/AH upstream of the Trimetric shunt later this Spring. Maybe it will all make more sense then what this new Whizbang gizmo does :(

The biggest catch with the Midnite Kid is that it derates above 25degC, so when things get hot, you're not going to get anywhere near 30A out of it. If you read the spec sheet it says, "Up to 30A amps battery output with low input voltage based off of PV configuration." In other words, the further your PV voltage gets from the battery voltage, the hotter the controller will get and the sooner it will current limit. I think there's been talk of adding a fan to it to keep it cooler. As with any product, research it thoroughly, ask questions, and understand what you're getting before you make your purchase.

Also, just because a company is well-known does not mean that its products are flawless. Often it just means that they have more money, better marketing, and a bigger fan base. Again, some research before you purchase may provide some balance.

BFL13 wrote:
Thanks. I didn't understand what that did.

No problem, hope I didn't offend. :D

Thanks. I didn't understand what that did.

BFL13 wrote:
So what does the solar monitor do on SOC that is any better? Is the rest of the rig on its shunt? If not, how can the solar monitor know what the big picture is on the battery and have any clue what the SOC is?

The solar monitor also measures what the solar does all day supplying amps, but does it know how much of that went to battery and affects SOC, and how much of that was "extra" that went to running things? Like in the afternoon, when your batts are near full but there is still plenty of solar available?

AFAIK, you need both a Trimetric for whole rig and a solar monitor upstream from the Tri to get the real story. Otherwise, the Tri is the one to have and you can derive how much was solar "close enough" by doing a little math in your head to account for what else is "on" in the rig when looking at the Tri's numbers.

If all you have is the solar monitor how can you do that?

Your not listening. Maybe a picture.



With this $44 device Midnite solar controllers know what current is going to the batteries vs what it's producing.

Brings up the Trimetric and the solar monitor, do you need both? argument.

IMO the Trimetric SOC reading is bogus and I don't use it. It is based on a capacity you have to enter. But capacity is changing all the time due to temperature. Besides that, the Trimetric notion of when you get to "full" is also bogus, where it defines "full" as being less than "truly full" and even suggests you pick something less than full to be your working number for full.

I do my own calculations for "full" and SOC based on the Trimetric AH count and my own notion of what capacity the batts have at the temperature at the time. and by cross checking voltages, AHs, and even SGs if getting paranoid.

So what does the solar monitor do on SOC that is any better? Is the rest of the rig on its shunt? If not, how can the solar monitor know what the big picture is on the battery and have any clue what the SOC is?

The solar monitor also measures what the solar does all day supplying amps, but does it know how much of that went to battery and affects SOC, and how much of that was "extra" that went to running things? Like in the afternoon, when your batts are near full but there is still plenty of solar available?

AFAIK, you need both a Trimetric for whole rig and a solar monitor upstream from the Tri to get the real story. Otherwise, the Tri is the one to have and you can derive how much was solar "close enough" by doing a little math in your head to account for what else is "on" in the rig when looking at the Tri's numbers.

If all you have is the solar monitor how can you do that?