Hey all,With all this converter talk recently, I noticed that the prog. dyn. PD9180/9280 converter comes with a 20 amp cord and plug. Can't tell if the cord wire is 12awg but probably. Fine.So the specs say 1300 watts. Max Continuous operation on a 15amp, 14awg household circuit is typically 1440 Watts. So... I guess these supplies have a nasty power factor, with no correction? Too bad the nameplate doesn't state VAs so we actually knew how much current it can draw. Website only states efficiency as .8 but that doesn't help with total AC power.Anyone know what the max is? Interesting how they state cutting the cord end will void the warranty, since its their only converter with a 20A plug.

My PD9180 came with a 15 amp configuration plug.Richard

That's interesting... Wonder if they changed the cord? A catalog from their website states 20 amp.Seems overkill to me.

My 9280 came with the 20amp plug. Sticker on it says 1500 amps. I thought this was pretty bogus, considering that people routinely run 1500 amp space heaters on normal plug/outlet.I figure it's a marketing ploy to make their converters seem super high-powered. Or, if I put on my less paranoid hat, maybe it's just intended to have the effect that it does -- to make us think.I got a 30 amp cord and will put a 20amp female end on it, for use at rv parks. I also bought a 20/15 adapter. When I stay at someone's house I will ask where they plug in a microwave or space heater without tripping a circuit :B.

Space heater is not considered a continuous load device as it will cycle some(generally). Same as a hair dryer can go to 1875 due to short use. Actually I believe both of these ratings (1500 & 1875) are at 125 volts giving the max allowed by NEC at 12 amps (continuous) and 15 amps (short use)Converter is a continuous rated (120 volt) device so the circuit is derated to 80% or 12 amp max on 15a circuit. Needs 20 amp circuit with 16 amp continuous rating. Amp load will actually increase to an extent with low voltage. Space heater the amps drop as voltage drops.NEC defines continuous as 3 hours at max rating.

It has a 20 amp cord/plug because it draws so many watts(VA) for input it would overheat 14 wire so it needs 12 wire size and the 20a circuit breaker.It is not bogus. If you buy one, IMO follow the proper installation instructions. Some other brands have Power Factor correction in their higher amp converters above 60 amp size. They can still use 15a circuits with 14 wire. so if you do want a higher amp converter, you have options.

PD 9180 needs 20 amp cord? | Good Sam Community

38 Replies

MEXICOWANDERER
Explorer
Sep 02, 2016
"Umph! Pull tabs on seven cans of Bud Lite. Grab pliers 'cause pipe wrench or hammer no work. Get rid of damned prong on bottom (yank and twist) cause only way fit plug, is upside down. But what is this sideways prong? Ugh Ugh, twist. Now plug can be hammered into place upside down. See? It fits!"

The appliance of course, has a steel body...

This is genetic. Trust me on this. Mass sterilization is the only way to cope with it. Wanna argue the point...browse a "TV Guide".
joebedford
Nomad II
Sep 01, 2016
mike-s wrote:
Naio wrote:
Wow. People are crazy.
No. It's not a person's choice to be crazy. They can learn to not be stupid.
No, stupid stays stupid. Uninformed can become informed and
uneducated can become educated, but not if they're stupid.
mike-s
Explorer
Sep 01, 2016
Naio wrote:
Wow. People are crazy.
No. It's not a person's choice to be crazy. They can learn to not be stupid.
Naio
Explorer II
Sep 01, 2016
KJINTF wrote:
Want a good scare?

You would be surprised as to how many "twisted" 20 amp plugs I see on customers converters. Twisted as in a pair of pliers bending the right angle neutral prong enabling it to fit in a standard 15amp cheap POS RV socket. Please do not do this!!!

Nothing more than big unwanted problem waiting to happen ......just a matter of time

Wow. People are crazy.
KJINTF
Explorer
Sep 01, 2016
Want a good scare?

You would be surprised as to how many "twisted" 20 amp plugs I see on customers converters. Twisted as in a pair of pliers bending the right angle neutral prong enabling it to fit in a standard 15amp cheap POS RV socket. Please do not do this!!!

Nothing more than big unwanted problem waiting to happen ......just a matter of time
MEXICOWANDERER
Explorer
Sep 01, 2016
I have to be careful with the BORG. Two 36-amp Megawatt power supplies.

On a 15-amp dedicated circuit if I plug in the charger with the switch set for both chargers operate, it will repeatedly trip the breaker and has tripped other 15-amp breakers.

The Pf may be .8 but four 680uf capacitors that are charging, get in the way of theoretical calculations.

That is why I put the chickenhead switch in the primary then backed it up with a spring-wound timer. Theoretical nonsense? Not when both chargers are plugged in online, and there is a momentary power outage.

Something else to chew on: A twenty amp plug "ensures" the use of a 20-amp receptacle which in turn ensures the use of a specification grade receptacle. The difference between even a 15-amp contractor's economy receptacle and a 15-amp spec grade receptacle is a laugh-a-minute until the fully-loaded contractor receptacle burns and ruins a good plug.

Only an amateur would believe "There is no difference between a contractor's receptacle and a specification grade receptacle of the same amperage" The change to a 20-amp plug is one of the more rational things I have seen done.

After burning toaster, broiler, coffeemaker, and microwave plugs on brand new (rented house) contractor's receptacles, they went into the trash four years ago and since then, no problems.

The max possible inrush into the BORG is something like 27 amperes.

Pf corrected chargers have fewer run issues, but what does a person do about those big capacitors? Yes there is a full wave bridge rectifier ahead of the 200 volt caps.

Charger control could be established with SCR control. But the SCRs I see are the size of a pin head. About the same square mm as the sum total of the area occupied by the hwang ho engineers brains who designed it.

KJITF, thanks for bringing some sense into this post :)
BFL13
Explorer II
Sep 01, 2016
I gather the converter makers have to decide whether to have theirs "UL Rated" in the States, which would mean following NEC rules such as smk mentioned.

That would mean 20a plugs on all the higher amp converters. Meanwhile customers would be annoyed having to adapt to 15a receptacles if that is what they have to plug it into. Sort of a "sales" issue, which way to go, depending on what "market" the converter is serving.

I my own case, a 20a plug is a PITA. The Honda has a single twist lock 30, worth 23a (2800 VA) and two 15s. It does not have 20/15 for the 15s. I have a 10AWG dog bone to go from the twist lock 30 to a RV 30 receptacle for the RV 30 plug. I have an adapter to change that 30 to 15. I use a longer 12AWG extension cord with a 15a plug which has three 15a receptacles from that to plug the 100a charger (and two other things if the Honda will do it all) into which has a 15a plug.

I recently got a charger that has a 20a plug and found I have no way to use it with the Honda or the RV (no 20/15 receptacles) I had to go and buy a 20/15 receptacle to add to a cut off length of 15a cord with plug to make another dog bone.

So now I can go: Honda 30 twist, RV 30 receptacle, 30/15 receptacle , new dog bone 15 plug/ 20/15 receptacle, 20a charger plug. What a PITA!
KJINTF
Explorer
Aug 31, 2016
I believe I have both of MR Wizards WFCO 68100 Converters here at the shop

One had a fried input side inductor L1 and has become a parts donor the other was OK with the exception of several very high ESR capacitors keeping it from going into boost mode both manually or automatically and now works just fine

Yes they do have input side power factor correction post bridge rectifier and mains capacitors nothing special and do indeed have a 20amp plug

IMO they are not any better or any worse than all the others

All of them can be modified to have variable output voltages from as low as 12.0 to as high as 16.0VDC or more
BFL13
Explorer II
Aug 31, 2016
smkettner wrote:
If a PD80 fit in the WFCO slot I would be cutting the cord to attach to a 20a breaker.
Adding romex to a new Jbox with a NEMA 5-20 would be a PITN.
Maybe get a 5-20 pigtail to preserve the warranty.

Smk, you might ask Mr Wizard about the 68100 before saying that. ISTR he has had two and they ran well, but ISTR he suspected they failed from being in a poorly ventilated space?

Besides the PF, they have that boost button, which is a useful feature.

With the 9180, you could plug it into one of those 20/15 receptacles which I assume is on a 12 wire 20a circuit, but can take a 15a plug.
Naio
Explorer II
Aug 31, 2016
smkettner wrote:
If a PD80 fit in the WFCO slot I would be cutting the cord to attach to a 20a breaker.
Adding romex to a new Jbox with a NEMA 5-20 would be a PITN.
Maybe get a 5-20 pigtail to preserve the warranty.

PD has consumer and OEM versions. I wonder if the OEM version comes with no cord?