Progressive EMS-HW50C unit

SoundGuy wrote:

ktmrfs wrote:
that delay is for complete loss of input power, a voltage sag doesn't (at least on mine) trigger that delay. It causes the relay to drop out. When it does that it does NOT trigger an error message.

I've only experienced total power loss since installing my Progressive EMS-HW30C but earlier in the summer when I was still using my TRC 34370 Surge Guard we did suffer a continuing brownout condition over the course of several days during which source power did drop below the unit's 102 vac threshold, at which point the SG did shut off power completely even though that power had only sagged, not dropped out completely. The greater annoyance was that minutes later voltage would recover somewhat and the TRC would then restore power to the trailer after it's obligatory delay ... then voltage would sag again and it would turn off, then come back on again, then turn off again ... annoying as heck so I unplugged completely. I can't say yet whether my EMS would behave in the same way but I have no reason to expect it wouldn't ... anything below it's low voltage threshold of 104 vac and I'd expect it also to disconnect power to the trailer.

And bypassing with the switch will NOT solve this problem. the low voltage trip will stay enabled. the switch just disables the reversed polarity, open ground, open neutral, etc.

From the EMS-HW30C / 50C owner's manual -

"Bypass switch: This switch is located on the remote panel, and allows the user to bypass the computer circuit in the EMS in the event of computer failure, thus allowing source power into the RV. This does not disable the surge protection portion of the EMS."

Seems to me bypass does disable all EMS functions except surge protection.

It sound like in your case, which is what I would expect to be a more typical low voltage campground situation, the voltage drops below 104 V long enough that it does shut the system down for the specified time. In your case you don't mention "relay chatter", which seems to be a more common condition with smaller generators where the voltage only drops below 104v for a cycle or so rather than seconds or more. When mine starts to act up with my honda generator the relay cycle time is probably around 5-10 times/second.

And you mentioned your experience with the honda generator. In my case my unit has the bypass switch. turning the switch to the bypass position with the generator has no effect on the chatter, it chatters in either case, so even if you had the switch it wouldn't have solved the problem.

before the ems install I could under ideal conditions start my coleman mach III with a single honda 2000, occasionally in eco mode. with the ems NO, never, relays chattered. I must use two honda's and under high altitude, hot conditions, not have them on eco mode to start w/o the chatter.

Thanks to all for the input. It has given him an idea of something else to check. The power has and is at constant 118-122 V @61 H. Never showed error code and power never disconnected or dropped. The ATS was silent. Sound came from the Progressive EMS and you could put your hand on it and feel it. After reading your inputs and thinking back he says that just a few days before they had replaced the 30 amp breaker on the big generator. Now he wonders if the 50 amp breaker is getting weak. He (being Hubby) says breakers are not meant to be turned off and on constantly and these are turned off and on a lot because we have to check the generator fluid levels almost daily--we turn the breakers off before killing gen--after cranking the gen back up we turn the breakers back on so the gen does not crank up under a full load. Hmm we always turn everything off in the camper so maybe we should stop turning the breakers off since we are not really cranking the gen up under a full load!! BTW we have 50 amp in our camper. The sound has never returned. We may need to get our service guy to replace the 50 amp breaker at the generator. Think we will put our pantry back together and wait and see. Will check on contacts replacement. Maybe we should just bypass the EMS since we really don't need it here with our constant power source. We are totally running on the big generator; no shore power here.

BillyandKris wrote:
Maybe we should just bypass the EMS since we really don't need it here with our constant power source. We are totally running on the big generator; no shore power here.

:h I would have thought your ATS should have been wired to switch the EMS out of the circuit when running on the generator - no? :@ Yet another reason IMO to install a hardwire EMS using connectors instead of just hard wiring it in - whenever there may be a need (such as apparently in this case) total removal from the circuit takes but seconds. :B

Which raises another point - if your EMS is not bypassed when running on the genset then this would be a good reason to get the system rewired so it is ... but if you never run on shore power why did you have an EMS installed in the first place? :h

"Big generator" or not I'd say that's what's causing your EMS to chatter ... run it on shore power and I bet it would be fine, unless of course the relay points in the contactor are now so pitted it can't help but chatter. :M

ktmrfs wrote:
And you mentioned your experience with the honda generator. In my case my unit has the bypass switch. turning the switch to the bypass position with the generator has no effect on the chatter, it chatters in either case, so even if you had the switch it wouldn't have solved the problem.

Can't say as I never tried it ... with my EU2000i as source power the EMS began to chatter as soon as I dialed up the A/C thermostat to the point where it's compressor kicked on ... in fact the chattering was so dramatic I really wouldn't want to repeat this test just so I could prove your theory about the EMS bypass function. Voltage being outputted from the EMS dropped so badly as the EMS chattered that the lights dimmed and flickered so noticeably that I didn't have the presence of mind to note the EMS voltage reading but simply dialed the thermo back again as quickly as I could to stop what was obviously a "bad event". Running the A/C on fan only of course was fine so I disconnected, unplugged the EMS from the system entirely (which I could easily do because I had installed it using standard 30 amp RV connectors) then repeated the test and the A/C compressor ramped up to speed just fine with no dramatics. How one could allow an EMS to continue to chatter "on and off for a couple of hours" as the OP apparently did is beyond me as it's pretty obvious from the chattering that something just isn't right. :h

BillyandKris wrote:
Thanks to all for the input. It has given him an idea of something else to check. The power has and is at constant 118-122 V @61 H. Never showed error code and power never disconnected or dropped. The ATS was silent. Sound came from the Progressive EMS and you could put your hand on it and feel it. After reading your inputs and thinking back he says that just a few days before they had replaced the 30 amp breaker on the big generator. Now he wonders if the 50 amp breaker is getting weak. He (being Hubby) says breakers are not meant to be turned off and on constantly and these are turned off and on a lot because we have to check the generator fluid levels almost daily--we turn the breakers off before killing gen--after cranking the gen back up we turn the breakers back on so the gen does not crank up under a full load. Hmm we always turn everything off in the camper so maybe we should stop turning the breakers off since we are not really cranking the gen up under a full load!! BTW we have 50 amp in our camper. The sound has never returned. We may need to get our service guy to replace the 50 amp breaker at the generator. Think we will put our pantry back together and wait and see. Will check on contacts replacement. Maybe we should just bypass the EMS since we really don't need it here with our constant power source. We are totally running on the big generator; no shore power here.

if the generator is prior to the ems no need to turn off the breakers. the ems does what you are looking to do. the ems will wait about 30 seconds (programmable) AFTER it sees 120V to close the contactor to give power to the coach. Same as turning off the breaker till the generator turns on for a while.

ktmrfs wrote:
the ems will wait about 30 seconds (programmable) AFTER it sees 120V to close the contactor to give power to the coach.

The OP has a Progressive Industries EMS-HW50C with a user settable delay of either 15" or 2:16 which is set with a jumper on the main circuit board. I've got my own EMS-HW30C currently set with the factory default of 15" for the convenience but once next summer rolls around I'll reset it to 2:16 because the Dometic Brisk II A/C we have doesn't have any built in compressor delay as do some A/C units. It's really annoying as I'd much rather leave the EMS set for a 15" delay but it is what it is and at least the EMS offers me the ability to protect the A/C's compressor whereas without it I can't. :)

Sorry if I am misunderstanding, but when you say you are not getting error codes - the unit should be providing some information including line voltage for each leg in addition to any error codes. Is your display showing this information? If not then the display is not on, the display is not working, or the cable is not plugged in or is defective.

* * on Edit - I just saw your prior post indicating you have a voltage reading. Please disregard this post.

SoundGuy wrote:

ktmrfs wrote:
the ems will wait about 30 seconds (programmable) AFTER it sees 120V to close the contactor to give power to the coach.

The OP has a Progressive Industries EMS-HW50C with a user settable delay of either 15" or 2:16 which is set with a jumper on the main circuit board. I've got my own EMS-HW30C currently set with the factory default of 15" for the convenience but once next summer rolls around I'll reset it to 2:16 because the Dometic Brisk II A/C we have doesn't have any built in compressor delay as do some A/C units. It's really annoying as I'd much rather leave the EMS set for a 15" delay but it is what it is and at least the EMS offers me the ability to protect the A/C's compressor whereas without it I can't. :)

I'll bet my 30A unit is also a 15 second delay, just SEEMS like 30 Seconds when your waiting for it to kick in!!!

ktmrfs wrote:
the ems will wait about 30 seconds (programmable) AFTER it sees 120V to close the contactor to give power to the coach.

SoundGuy wrote:
The OP has a Progressive Industries EMS-HW50C with a user settable delay of either 15" or 2:16 which is set with a jumper on the main circuit board. I've got my own EMS-HW30C currently set with the factory default of 15" for the convenience but once next summer rolls around I'll reset it to 2:16 because the Dometic Brisk II A/C we have doesn't have any built in compressor delay as do some A/C units. It's really annoying as I'd much rather leave the EMS set for a 15" delay but it is what it is and at least the EMS offers me the ability to protect the A/C's compressor whereas without it I can't. :)

ktmrfs wrote:
I'll bet my 30A unit is also a 15 second delay, just SEEMS like 30 Seconds when your waiting for it to kick in!!!

Depends on the make / model you have ... if it's a TRC with time delay they're all set for a 128" delay except the 50 amp Hardwire Plus which is set for 135", if it's a Progressive Industries unit with time delay it will be fixed at 136" if it's a portable but if it's a hardwire model that same delay can be reset to just 15" - one of several reasons I chose the Progressive EMS-HW30C for my own use.

Like you I much prefer the shorter delay of just 15" and would only have use for the longer delay during the summer when we might use the A/C. You're right - waiting for that delay sometimes seems like watching grass grow but your post has given me an idea ... I think I'll add a simple toggle switch to my EMS so I won't have to open the case to remove the time delay jumper which alters the delay from 15" to 136". That way I can leave it set at 15" for convenience but on those few occasions when we do use A/C I can simply switch the EMS delay to 136". :B

SoundGuy wrote:

...
Like you I much prefer the shorter delay of just 15" and would only have use for the longer delay during the summer when we might use the A/C. You're right - waiting for that delay sometimes seems like watching grass grow
...

Sheesh, you guys are so impatient.

I've usually got about a million things to do setting up camp outside after plugging in the shore power. So power's always on when those are done, no problem, and I've got the long time delay.