Forum Discussion

SoundGuy's avatar
SoundGuy
Explorer
May 24, 2015

Sine Wave Inverter Anomaly

After following this recent discussion about how to best utilize a sine wave inverter for RV use I decided to go ahead and buy the 1000 watt model mentioned in this discussion since it was on sale for just $199 at Canadian Tire, certainly the lowest price for this size in these parts. My primary use for it is to power 120 vac fans in the camper when dry camping, and based on battery reserve possibly to power our coffee machine, toaster, and my wife's hair dryer, my current limitation of course being the single G27 battery that's presently on the trailer. After musing about it for awhile I decided I'd prefer to wire the inverter "whole house" so I could power the trailer's entire 120 vac system by simply plugging the main service cable into the inverter, the limitation of course being the inverter's maximum 1000 watt rating. I decided to install the inverter on a shelf hung from the joists in the front passthrough compartment where it would be protected from the weather, ventilated, easy to reach, yet occupying otherwise unused space. 6 feet of 4 gauge for both the positive and negative input cables got me to the battery where I ran the positive through an 80 amp fuse. The 120 vac output cable was a few feet of 10 gauge main service cable I happened to have on hand, terminated with a 15 amp Leviton WetGuard connector. For anyone interested, a series of 4 pics starts here.

Time to check everything so although I KNEW everything was wired correctly I proceeded cautiously and before plugging anything in at all decided to check the inverter output with a polarity checker. UH OH ... open ground! :h Hmmm, I never expected that but then I can't say I've ever checked any inverter output with a polarity checker before ... but no question about it, both inverter output receptacles are showing an open ground and indeed if I measure between hot and ground my voltmeter is showing 0 volts rather than a nominal 120 volts as it should and as there is between the hot and neutral. After thinking about it for awhile I decided to go ahead and plug in the main service cable, reasoning the trailer itself would provide the necessary ground ... and bingo, it did. So - it all works just as it should, the inverter easily powers all the aforementioned appliances, BUT I have to wonder why this inverter's output receptacles are not grounded. The inverter does have a chassis stud so it can be grounded to the trailer chassis but that makes no difference at all - it appears the inverter's output is simply lacking ground. Unfortunately the owner's manual is really simplistic and has no schematic so I'd like to ask if those owning a sine wave inverter have ever run into this same situation with their inverter's output not being grounded? :@
  • RoyB wrote:
    Check the forums for BONDING GENERATORS and /or INVERTER.


    Thanks Roy but I'm aware of the principles of bonding and in fact used a variation of your example to bond my Honda EU2000i. Effectively that's what is happening with the inverter when I plug in the trailer's main service cable but I want to know why the inverter itself doesn't appear to have a grounded output.
  • brulaz wrote:
    But if I did something similar with mine, what would my Prog Ind EMS-LCHW30 have to say about that open ground?

    According to the docs, if it finds an open ground (or open neutral) it "will not allow power to the RV"


    I do have a Surge Guard installed inside our trailer so that's the first thing incoming 120 vac sees and it's dealing with this fine, which in turn tells me the inverter is getting it's ground from the SG once the main service cable is plugged into it. This is confusing though because I also have a Honda EU2000i with a floating neutral and the Surge Guard will NOT turn on unless I bond the genset's output so I'm about to go outside now and do a few more tests to see if I can make some sense of this. Since this inverter is brand new and obviously under warranty I'm loathe to open up the case to take a look at how those output receptacles are wired so although comments received so far suggest this may be "normal" it sure does seem odd to me. :h
  • RoyB's avatar
    RoyB
    Explorer II
    Check the forums for BONDING GENERATORS and /or INVERTER.

    You can plug in one of these homemade adapter plugs with the GROUND and NUETRAL wired together.

    I did this on one of my PSW INVERTER to keep the GFI from tripping...

    You should check with others on this however just to feel safe doing it...

    The GENERATORs and INVERTERs have no ref to ground like the shore power pedestals does.







    BONDING

    Roy Ken
  • Nice. You are fast!

    But if I did something similar with mine, what would my Prog Ind EMS-LCHW30 have to say about that open ground?

    According to the docs, if it finds an open ground (or open neutral) it "will not allow power to the RV"

    Have got a 120VAC relay on order so I can go around the EMS-LCHW30. We'll see how that works. Will be more complicated wiring though.:(
  • RoyB's avatar
    RoyB
    Explorer II
    Some INVERTERs will have the 120VAC GROUND and NEUTRAL bonded together to prevent this.
  • Hi,

    Almost all inverters will give strange results with a polarity checker, even pure sine wave units.

    I've checked 3 makes of inverters and all of them gave no useful information.

    Btw nice install job.