Hey All, Was hoping to hear from other owners on reasons for possible electrical fire.Trailer: 2015 Outback Toy Hauler Here is the story. Around midnight on Monday we woke up to the sound of what sounded like a breaker fuse trying to trip over and over again. Then there was a weird surging sound in the AC unit. I turned the AC off and opened the distribution panel. Were I could smell smoke immediately. I flipped on the lights and could see smoke coming from the panel. I began dropping all the power to the trailer, and we stayed that way till a service tech showed up in the morning. The service tech opened the panel and we couldn't see any noticeable burn marks or melted wires...nothing. WEIRD!However, our entire electrical system was possessed. The amperage draws were chaotic, the ACs were shifting loads between them both. Then BOOM!A capacitor on the converter blows creating a huge electrical arc. That's when the tech calls it and says he wants to work on it back at his shop. We take the RV to his shop. He replaces the converter and...NOTHING. Everything works great. The amperage draws our normal, the ACs are running perfectly, there is no more issues in the electrical system. QUESTIONS: Could a bad converter have been the cause? Videos:Electrical Arc: https://youtu.be/_ofvt8_cLvYVideo Story 1: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NwMNr3KSIpYVideo Story 2: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NwMNr3KSIpYVideo Story 3:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vUTVgELsQGY-CLV3

In a word: YesIf you are new it is highly recommended that every last screw in your AC box be re-tightened as well. Do not omit a single one.

*If* you were hooked to 50 amp service, I would suspect a bad neutral connection, which fried the converter because of high voltage.

I too suspect a bad neutral on 50 amps.Yes the converter could do much of what you said but the surgign A/C suggests, STRONGLY, an open or weak neutralSuggestion: If it is a 50 amp Rig install a Progressive Industries HW-50C(for 30 amp change the 50 to 30)These devices can detect an open neutral and shut down power to your RV to protect you from just what appears to have happened.

The amperage draws were chaotic...... How was this determined and how large was the swing in amps? I too, cast a vote for possible lack of neutral and recommend that all the wires in the load center be tightened. FWIW, if I was full-timing, I'd definitely have a hard-wired Energy Management System in place. There are just too many electrically substandard campgrounds that I might encounter. Do you have an AC meter in place in the Outback or do you test the pedestal before connecting?

Thanks guys. I'll ask the camp ground to check the neutral led. We are currently using a Progressive Industries (EMS-PT50C), I was under the assumption that this would notify me of an open neutral. Would the converter have back feed the distribution panel creating a jump in Amps?

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time2roll
Nomad
Sep 03, 2016
Hard to tell unless you measured voltage.
Yes if replacing the converter fixes the issue I believe that is all there was.

What does voltage measure today on the main breakers in the RV? Does it change much as you turn on each air conditioner, water heater or microwave? Try a hairdryer on high in each outlet for additional testing.
cestlaviethree
Explorer
Sep 03, 2016
Thanks Gent,

-Yes, the EMS was plugged in for the duration of this episode.

-I've started tightening, but nothing is loose yet.

-On the main breakers today. I am pulling a healthy ~14amps on our AC vs the ~29amps as it was before. So it all seems to be in the proper range.

Question: Does the AC require a 12VDC reference to start, similar to the refrigerator?

Thanks again all.
CA_Traveler
Explorer III
Sep 03, 2016
cestlaviethree wrote:
Question: Does the AC require a 12VDC reference to start, similar to the refrigerator?
Yes or no, look up your model number.
time2roll
Nomad
Sep 03, 2016
cestlaviethree wrote:
Question: Does the AC require a 12VDC reference to start, similar to the refrigerator?
Generally yes, especially for the thermostat.
pianotuna
Nomad III
Sep 03, 2016
Hi,

Rule of thumb -- it it has a thermostat on the wall it needs 12 volt for the control boards.

cestlaviethree wrote:
Question: Does the AC require a 12VDC reference to start, similar to the refrigerator?

Thanks again all.
westend
Explorer
Sep 03, 2016
-On the main breakers today. I am pulling a healthy ~14amps on our AC vs the ~29amps as it was before. So it all seems to be in the proper range.

It may seem trivial to you but I'll ask once more, how is the amperage being measured? If you have a measuring system that isn't accurate, the information you get from it is worse than no information at all. 29 amps of draw would be very high for two A/C units running. 14 amps is on the low side for two units.

Do you have other 120V devices besides the A/C units and the converter drawing power? Refrigerator or water heater on electric?

Edit: OK, I found that the PD EMS displays amperage and I'm assuming that is what's referenced with the electrical draw. I believe this is probably fairly accurate. The large draw seen when the converter failed may have been the failing converter and now that it is replaced, hope all goes well.
cestlaviethree
Explorer
Sep 04, 2016
westend wrote:
-On the main breakers today. I am pulling a healthy ~14amps on our AC vs the ~29amps as it was before. So it all seems to be in the proper range.

It may seem trivial to you but I'll ask once more, how is the amperage being measured? If you have a measuring system that isn't accurate, the information you get from it is worse than no information at all. 29 amps of draw would be very high for two A/C units running. 14 amps is on the low side for two units.

Do you have other 120V devices besides the A/C units and the converter drawing power? Refrigerator or water heater on electric?

Edit: OK, I found that the PD EMS displays amperage and I'm assuming that is what's referenced with the electrical draw. I believe this is probably fairly accurate. The large draw seen when the converter failed may have been the failing converter and now that it is replaced, hope all goes well.

Sorry, thought you were asking the exact amount. We were using a Milwaukee clamp meter. The EMS cycles through its display so it was frustrating to take a reading every 20 seconds. So I never use the EMS for readings only as a comparison or reference point. I had the water heater and the refrigerator on the whole time. I turned the microwave on when I was troubleshooting.

Thanks.

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