Hi all,This doesn't cover all the concerns for me, but it does show at least some of them: https://youtu.be/_PgthByAYz4

That video is from 2019. Will Prowse states "This video is outdated. We now have BMS that can do everything!"

Tom,Show me a bms that allows a draw of 240 amps from a 100 amp-hour battery?My future bank will allow 9600 amps. Not that I'll ever use that amount of current.

pianotuna wrote:Show me a bms that allows a draw of 240 amps from a 100 amp-hour battery?240a is outrageous. You'll need to upgrade to higher voltage, but I know you know that.

2oldman,I have measured that amount on my existing system, outrageous or not. And yes 48 volts would be a much better figure. But to do that means dropping in a new inverter/charger and a 48 dc to 12 dc converter, and lots of rewiring at a minium. Bottom line, that is not going to happen.

pianotuna wrote:I have measured that amount on my existing system, outrageous or not.Why would you expect that from a 100ah battery?

why i call Li fussy | Good Sam Community

95 Replies

FWC
Explorer
Jun 17, 2021
PerryB67 wrote:
FWC wrote:
Yes you can.

It sounds like your batteries are within the heated space, then you don't need heated batteries, which brings the price down to ~$500 per 100Ah. Or you can add an adhesive heater (about $25) to a regular battery to make it a heated battery if you want.
You misunderstood.

The camper is winterized and in storage. The furnace hasn't been running since it went into storage. It's anywhere from -20 to 0F INSIDE the camper. Everything in the camper and the batteries in a box outside are -20 to 0F. There is NO 110 available.

Can I just flip the switch on the -20 to 0F Battleborns, wait until they get nice and toasty, and then turn on the furnace?

Enjoy,

Perry

Yes you can just start the furnace and use that to warm up the batteries. You don't need to heat the battery up first, but you can if you want to.

My point was that if your batteries are inside the camper, you don't need an internally heated battery for winter use in general. The camper heat will keep the batteries plenty warm to use. If you use water (even just in jugs) in the camper then lithium batteries without heaters will be fine. This is what I use.
PerryB67
Explorer
Jun 17, 2021
FWC wrote:
Yes you can.

It sounds like your batteries are within the heated space, then you don't need heated batteries, which brings the price down to ~$500 per 100Ah. Or you can add an adhesive heater (about $25) to a regular battery to make it a heated battery if you want.
You misunderstood.

The camper is winterized and in storage. The furnace hasn't been running since it went into storage. It's anywhere from -20 to 0F INSIDE the camper. Everything in the camper and the batteries in a box outside are -20 to 0F. There is NO 110 available.

Can I just flip the switch on the -20 to 0F Battleborns, wait until they get nice and toasty, and then turn on the furnace?

Enjoy,

Perry
2oldman
Explorer II
Jun 17, 2021
PerryB67 wrote:
Does Battborn, Renogy, etc. have a LFP battery with a heater that can sit for months without charge, without the built-in heater running, and then two days before leaving can you turn that heater on?
LFPs can sit for a long time without being charged. Since the heater only draws 1.8a, and is very smartly controlled, yes.
pianotuna
Nomad III
Jun 16, 2021
PerryB67 wrote:
I don't want to build a battery.

Where we store our camper November to February there is no electrical hookup.

Does Battborn, Renogy, etc. have a LFP battery with a heater that can sit for months without charge, without the built-in heater running, and then two days before leaving can you turn that heater on?

Enjoy,

Perry

Not without you physically being present--and float charging is not recommended for any Li formulation that I'm aware of. Best to store at 50% state of charge.

One would need to know the wattage of the heater to know how much of the charge would be used up.

I've sent you a private message.
BFL13
Explorer II
Jun 16, 2021
Note that was -20C to + 5C when the charger changes over and starts charging- not 0C.

The Relion and Trojan Trillium blurbs mention you need to reduce the amps for charging when under 5C /40F. How much of a reduction? There is some controversy over how much this matters among guys on here. IMO the battery specs come first.

So it might be an issue for camping when it gets to 5C as the daily high and gets down to freezing at night (like here in the winter quite often), and the batts are outside.

Unfortunately, the battery spec guys don't say how you can reduce those amps. An RV converter has its rated amps (current limited), and it will do whatever the batteries will accept up to that many amps. You can't choose a lower amps setting.

If you knew the battery temperature when it is being charged, perhaps you can crank up the amps once it gets over 5C. Do you have a way to know the battery temp vs the ambient temp?

If you intend to use the battery AH to warm it up before it can be charged, you have to leave enough capacity in there to do that. So how many AH do you have to leave in? You sure don't want it to go below the BMS shut down during the heating up phase. Now you have no 12v in the rig! Now what?

To avoid all these scenarios, guys with LFP make sure they don't get into such a situation in the first place. They recharge sooner at a higher SOC. That can mean not using as much of the LFP capacity as they could in moderate temperatures.

Some portable chargers do have amps setting you can choose, like the old Vector models.
FWC
Explorer
Jun 16, 2021
PerryB67 wrote:
FWC wrote:
There is something up with BB website - the heated batteries are normally ~ $1000 not $2000. The other batteries don't need a switch - they only heat when it is both cold and they are charging, any of them will work in the situation you describe.

You can also just mount regular lithium batteries inside the camper and use your furnace to warm them up. Or add a cheap heating pad to the batteries. This is not the unsolvable problem that folks make it out to be.
So at -20 to 0F I can use the batteries to run the furnace to heat the batteries? Apparently I got some really crappy info from Battleborn last winter.

Then there's the price. Even $1,000 for a heated Battleborn is too much for only 100 ah's.

I'm good for now with 260 ah's of SiO2 batteries, but just want to give accurate advice to friends. I'm currently adding three 100 watt Renogy panels to the existing 170 watt panel on the roof. We have a site in a great campground on the Root River. It seems I'm spending just as much time explaining what/why to neighbors as time spent adding more solar to the roof.

Enjoy,

Perry

Yes you can.

It sounds like your batteries are within the heated space, then you don't need heated batteries, which brings the price down to ~$500 per 100Ah. Or you can add an adhesive heater (about $25) to a regular battery to make it a heated battery if you want.
PerryB67
Explorer
Jun 16, 2021
PerryB67 wrote:
FWC wrote:
There is something up with BB website - the heated batteries are normally ~ $1000 not $2000. The other batteries don't need a switch - they only heat when it is both cold and they are charging, any of them will work in the situation you describe.

You can also just mount regular lithium batteries inside the camper and use your furnace to warm them up. Or add a cheap heating pad to the batteries. This is not the unsolvable problem that folks make it out to be.
So at -20 to 0F I can use the batteries to run the furnace to heat the batteries? Apparently I got some really crappy info from Battleborn last winter.

Then there's the price. Even $1,000 for a heated Battleborn is too much for only 100 ah's.

I'm good for now with 260 ah's of SiO2 batteries, but just want to give accurate advice to friends. I'm currently adding three 100 watt Renogy panels to the existing 170 watt panel on the roof. We have a site in a great campground on the Root River. It seems I'm spending just as much time explaining what/why to neighbors as time spent adding more solar to the roof. :)

Enjoy,

Perry
PerryB67
Explorer
Jun 16, 2021
FWC wrote:
There is something up with BB website - the heated batteries are normally ~ $1000 not $2000. The other batteries don't need a switch - they only heat when it is both cold and they are charging, any of them will work in the situation you describe.

You can also just mount regular lithium batteries inside the camper and use your furnace to warm them up. Or add a cheap heating pad to the batteries. This is not the unsolvable problem that folks make it out to be.
So at -20 to 0F I can use the batteries to run the furnace to heat the batteries? Apparently I got some really crappy info from Battleborn last winter.

Then there's the price. Even $1,000 for a heated Battleborn is too much for only 100 ah's.

I'm good for now with 260 ah's of SiO2 batteries, but just want to give accurate advice to friends. I'm currently adding three 100 watt Renogy panels to the existing 170 watt panel on the roof. We have a site in a great campground on the Root River. It seems I'm spending just as much time explaining what/why to neighbors as time spent adding more solar to the roof.

Enjoy,

Perry
otrfun
Explorer II
Jun 16, 2021
LifeBlue sells heated 100ah/200ah/300ah LifePo4 batteries. This LifeBlue 100ah heated battery sells for $870 (no tax and free shipping). Along with a 6a heater, it also has built-in bluetooth, a data port for BMS updates, a reset button and 5/10 year warranty. LifeBlue has been out a number of years and seem to have a good rep. We were going to purchase two of these before we decided to build our own 200ah LifePo4 battery pack. Larry at LifeBlue has many, many years of solar experience and know these batteries well.
FWC
Explorer
Jun 16, 2021
Yes, the heated battery is normally $1049 (still expensive, but not $2k expensive).

100Ah Heated Battery $1049

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why i call Li fussy

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