JIMNLIN wrote:
jmramiller wrote:
(snip)
As this is a RV forum I in no way intended the OP to be about commercial towing. I created this thread in direct response to your multitude of posts suggesting to others that if they exceed the axle ratings posted on the door sticker they are in violation of both federal and OK law per FMCSA. You have repeatedly stated that OK uses these regs for both commercial and non commercial vehicles suggesting that non commercial TV's are legally bound by the door sticker. You have repeatedly stated that if you are pulling an RV and you get weighed for any reason in OK and over the door sticker axke weights you will be cited. After reading both the FMCSA and the OK regs there is not a single instance where the RAWR on the door sticker is legally binding. The regs do not even limit the steering axle to the door sticker ratings unless the state writes it in their own codes which the FMCSA allows but does not mandate. I challange you to prove otherwise.
As far as the sticker being required by law...this is intended to protect the consumer from fraudulant claims by the manufacturer. No where in the regs that require the sticker does it require the consumer to abide by these numbers. The comparison of a mattress tag is a very good one. In fact the mattress tag clearly states that it is unlawful for the sticker to be removed by anyone other than the end user. My door sticker doesn't say anywhere that it can not be removed.
you betcha' I have stated how my state enforces door tag axle weights as that is how we balance our loads per FMCSA commercial combined hauling. Any hotshoter/commercial hauler will tell you that. See my replies above for FMCSA regs. Your interpetation of cfr 49 part 567.4 as a matteress tag is yout opinion. No where does it say its just a tag for fradulent claims (disclaimer). Quite the contary. Fmcsa 571.110 is 12 pages long and states how GAWR/tire capacity/GVWR are tied and the placard with that info and the placard are a statutary requirement. That also is a state/fed requirement for a usdot number application and for a commercial combined tag for 26000 lb and above.
No where have I repeatedly said we can be pulled over and cited for being over axle weights. Quite the opposite. Just as those two officer said that RVs are a low priority. What I have said is my state uses those door tag axle weights for commercial (FMCSA) and non commercial which includes axle weights right off the door tag. Your interpetation of my states regs we enforce is quite different that my state dot and OHP officers verbal info as they gave. As I said earlier guess whos interpetation I'll use. How about some documentation to back up your claims. You can't do it. Thats why I went to my state to get their interpetation.
It looks to me as your not interested in finding any legalities as you seem to have a agenda just to prove someone wrong. The only way to prove I'm wrong is show folks a reg that states your claim/opinion.
Those FMCSA 571 regs and FMVSS 571 regs and FMVSS 567.4 and .5 aren't just for looks or simply as a disclaimer but are statutory laws pertaining to door tag (placard) info.
Just a point when your looking at fed regs on the web is sometime its a shortened version. Also look at disclaimer or new law clickies when your in FMCSA regs.
Jim I have repeatedly provided links and quotes to both federal and OK state regs which support my position. Don't believe me? You have a very short memory. Look back at the first post in this thread and you will see a quote which debunks your claims. It cleary indicates that a state can not limit a non steering axle below 20k on the interstate system. That statement alone negates the limit on the door sticker. It is in black and white and it is the law.
Here is the quote again:
(f) Except as provided herein, States may not enforce on the Interstate System vehicle weight limits of less than 20,000 pounds on a single axle, 34,000 pounds on a tandem axle, or the weights derived from the Bridge Formula, up to a maximum of 80,000 pounds, including all enforcement tolerances. States may not limit tire loads to less than 500 pounds per inch of tire or tread width, except that such limits may not be applied to tires on the steering axle. States may not limit steering axle weights to less than 20,000 pounds or the axle rating established by the manufacturer, whichever is lower.
The only axle that a state may limit to a manufacturer's established axle rating is the steering axle. I would like to make an important observation here. A lot has been made about the difinition section of this code. It is important to note that in this paragraph the terms everyone keys on in the difinition code are not used - example: GAWR, GVWR. These terms are all associated by difinition with the vehicle manufacturer. In this case the writers of the code did not use these terms. This would indicate that in this instance the "manufacturer" is not the vehicle manufacturer at all but rather the axle manufacturer. If the writers intended to refer to the vehicle manufacturer why would they have not used the terms that they so pains takingly defined? Better yet why did they not simply state "Open the door and look at the tag to see what you can carry/tow"? They didn't do it because that is not the intent of the code whatsoever. I know that none of this will sink through to you (that is a lost cause)and that is fine as I am no longer responding for your benifit but for the benifit of the other readers.
