2014 Ultimate 1 Ton Challenge results
2014 Ultimate HD Challenge 1. GMC 2. Ram 3. Ford
Forum Discussion
Typo on power, should have said torque.
Finding a dyno that allows for full power in 2nd or 3rd is very difficult, even the loaded dyno's don't generally have enough load. This is why higher gears make more power, especially on turbo motors.
I am well aware of how it works, but nonetheless your link doesn't work.
It still makes a difference, look at tow ratings in 3.42 vs 4.10. Physics and gearing didn't change just because we added more gears, the same principles still apply. They may be less apparent under normal driving due to increased hp and gears, but it still works the exact same.
Anyway you cut it gear for gear there is more available rear wheel torque with lower gearing.
Yes more gears will help, i.e. 9812V and his 3.42's, but he is also going with 4.10's on his next truck.
Most older 4 speed manuals did not have an OD, so 1-4 where similar to 1-4 on a modern 6 speed diesel. 3 speed auto's also didn't have OD, but the 1 extra gear between 1 and direct is great for towing.
Low speed is where the lower gearing really shines, the added wheel torque does get the load moving easier. In these tests from a stop that would have improved any of the trucks times, and one reason the Ford did so well (lowest overall gearing).
Ram's 0-60 and 1/4 mile times would certainly have been noticeably better with 4.10's over 3.73's. It's hard to say that it would be negligible.
The point was how load effects a chassis dyno. With my OEM drivetrain loss of 15% (as I measured on a dyno) I am putting out right at 1000 ft/lbs at the crank. The gearing in 6th, OD of 0.73:1, should produce less torque but it makes more due to the engine being loaded and making power.
Watch diesels on the dyno, they generally smoke even when smoke-free on the street. It's because they rev so fast there is excess fuel, or lost power.
A Chassis dyno is all we have, but irrelevant in this conversation based on how it measures/calculates.
Turtle n Peeps wrote:
Next time dyno your car in 2nd or 3rd gear and then 1 to 1 and see which makes more "power" then come back here and tell all of us of your results. Read post #10 if you want to know the story without doing anything.
Finding a dyno that allows for full power in 2nd or 3rd is very difficult, even the loaded dyno's don't generally have enough load. This is why higher gears make more power, especially on turbo motors.
I am well aware of how it works, but nonetheless your link doesn't work.
Turtle n Peeps wrote:
My point being of all of this is:
In the old days of 3 speed autos and 4 speed manuals with 200 HP at the rear wheels it made a BIG difference in the rear gear we chose. Now days with 6 speeds+ and huge HP, rear end gear picking is almost out of the equation.
It still makes a difference, look at tow ratings in 3.42 vs 4.10. Physics and gearing didn't change just because we added more gears, the same principles still apply. They may be less apparent under normal driving due to increased hp and gears, but it still works the exact same.
Anyway you cut it gear for gear there is more available rear wheel torque with lower gearing.
Yes more gears will help, i.e. 9812V and his 3.42's, but he is also going with 4.10's on his next truck.
Most older 4 speed manuals did not have an OD, so 1-4 where similar to 1-4 on a modern 6 speed diesel. 3 speed auto's also didn't have OD, but the 1 extra gear between 1 and direct is great for towing.
Low speed is where the lower gearing really shines, the added wheel torque does get the load moving easier. In these tests from a stop that would have improved any of the trucks times, and one reason the Ford did so well (lowest overall gearing).
Ram's 0-60 and 1/4 mile times would certainly have been noticeably better with 4.10's over 3.73's. It's hard to say that it would be negligible.
Turtle n Peeps wrote:
As you can see, the torque increase was huge but by your own words you did not make anymore power. (1% is within static of most dyno runs)
The point was how load effects a chassis dyno. With my OEM drivetrain loss of 15% (as I measured on a dyno) I am putting out right at 1000 ft/lbs at the crank. The gearing in 6th, OD of 0.73:1, should produce less torque but it makes more due to the engine being loaded and making power.
Watch diesels on the dyno, they generally smoke even when smoke-free on the street. It's because they rev so fast there is excess fuel, or lost power.
A Chassis dyno is all we have, but irrelevant in this conversation based on how it measures/calculates.
