The TFL guys just posted their raw and unedited version of all 3 trucks doing their IKE runs.VIDEOFord seems to run higher temps for engine, oil, and trans. It also sounded like the cooling fan either ran a lot more, or is just louder by design compared to the other two.It certainly performs well though.

I wonder why the Ford cooling fan was used so much? The powerstroke was putting out about 15% more power than the other engines but I don't think that would be enough to require that much more cooling. The other possibility is that the cooling fan was needed to keep the intercooler running efficiently?What was happening with the Ram transmission? I think the torque converter must have been unlocking and locking?

4x4ord wrote:I wonder why the Ford cooling fan was used so much? The powerstroke was putting out about 15% more power than the other engines but I don't think that would be enough to require that much more cooling. The other possibility is that the cooling fan was needed to keep the intercooler running efficiently?What was happening with the Ram transmission? I think the torque converter must have been unlocking and locking?For the cooling fan part, it's just basic math in a diesel engine. The more fuel you put at it, the hotter it is. The Duramax went from 235/500 in 01 to 445/910 now (for comparison, the new 3.0 is 277/460). It's the engine has changed over the years, they've added emissions, and beefed up the tranny. But the biggest difference is the amount of cooling they added to the engine. Look at the cooling stack now compared to prior years. All Ford really did was add fuel and then cooling.That's the main reason I wanted to see the whole video of them pulling and see the DB readings (which they didn't take). Yes pulling 30k, the Ford did better, but it was much louder doing so. For most of us pulling under 20k, I would imagine both can go the speed limit the entire pass. My 08 Duramax pulling 15k would pull every mountain pass at the speed limit other than when it was 95 degrees out.

2001400ex wrote:4x4ord wrote:I wonder why the Ford cooling fan was used so much? The powerstroke was putting out about 15% more power than the other engines but I don't think that would be enough to require that much more cooling. The other possibility is that the cooling fan was needed to keep the intercooler running efficiently?What was happening with the Ram transmission? I think the torque converter must have been unlocking and locking?For the cooling fan part, it's just basic math in a diesel engine. The more fuel you put at it, the hotter it is. The Duramax went from 235/500 in 01 to 445/910 now (for comparison, the new 3.0 is 277/460). It's the engine has changed over the years, they've added emissions, and beefed up the tranny. But the biggest difference is the amount of cooling they added to the engine. Look at the cooling stack now compared to prior years. All Ford really did was add fuel and then cooling.That's the main reason I wanted to see the whole video of them pulling and see the DB readings (which they didn't take). Yes pulling 30k, the Ford did better, but it was much louder doing so. For most of us pulling under 20k, I would imagine both can go the speed limit the entire pass. My 08 Duramax pulling 15k would pull every mountain pass at the speed limit other than when it was 95 degrees out.I realize that the more fuel these trucks are burning the more cooling is required. The thing that seems a little puzzling to me is that if the cooling fan was actually needed to cool the engine at 22* F the Ford's cooling system is no where near what it needs to be. Like you said it needs to keep the engine cool at 95*. The Ford was not running at maximum power it was only running 2000 to 2500 rpm. My 2017 Powerstroke running at 2800 rpm will put out very close to the kind of power the 2020 was doing on this test. I have had my pedal to the floor on long steep grades in the middle of summer and I have never noticed the cooling system as being a limiting factor.

I wonder if the Ford (or any for that matter) would de-fuel if outside temps were hotter and therefore post a longer time.

2020 IKE raw and unedited | Good Sam Community

197 Replies

Cummins12V98
Explorer III
Feb 25, 2020
But But RAM was the safest of all with ZERO brake applications. Not really anything more important.

Also had had a good time climbing with nice cool temps and guess what the fan NEVER came on.
FishOnOne
Nomad
Feb 25, 2020
4x4ord wrote:
ShinerBock wrote:

There is a reason why water-to-air intercooler are mainly popular in drag racing applications and air-to-air are more popular in longer duration track applications.

There is also a reason why Ford chose to put a more expensive and complicated charge air cooling system on the Super Duty. I don't know much about it, so anything I could come up with would just be a guess, it obviously wasn't to cut costs or because they didn't care about cooling.

Ford uses a water to air intercooler to better control the air temperature consistency going into the engine. If you control your inputs you'll have better success with controlling your outputs (i.e. efficiency, power, emissions).
FishOnOne
Nomad
Feb 25, 2020
The excuses continue to run rapid...

Bottom line the Ford beat the Chevy and Ram up the hill with significant less time. Beat the Chevy down hill with less brake applications. Beat the Chevy in the fuel economy test pulling 30k lbs.

These performance metrics will only mean a better performing trucks for it's customers.
mich800
Explorer
Feb 24, 2020
Huntindog wrote:
ShinerBock wrote:
Huntindog wrote:

I understand precisely what you are saying.

One question: Does Ford do SAE testing procedures with a SAE witness or not?

If not, then you can dis the SAE standards all you want. The Fact would be that Ford tests without any "benchmark" standards. IOW, They can make up their own test standards.

Using a witness does not matter in what I am talking about since none(zero,zip, zilch, nada) of the SAE tests is sustained power. It is only short burst power. So having a witness has nothing to do with it.

Also, the tests standards(witness or not) have the same correction factors. Ford or any manufacturer could use the best correction factors today without a witness and then use the very same best correction factors next year with a witness and it would still be legit. A witness does not mean squat in this because it is legal to do witness or not, and a witness would still sign off on using the best correction factors because it is within the test parameters. I don't think you understand how the process works because you would not be saying what you are saying if you did.
So why then did the Dmax with less HP smoke the higher rated Ford for so many years?

Fact is with out a SAE witness to the testing, they can do anything they want. And get pretty much any rating they want...

I remember a MASH episode where Col. Potter was having trouble passing his drivers test, and wanted a "make up test".
his instructor, Rizzo said"Great idea, you can make up your own test, I bet you get a 100%."

It is definitely not uncommon for a lower powered vehicle to win a race. Bench racing only gets you so far. You can plug in as many formulas, weights, gear ratios etc you want but it doesn't mean anything until that tire is pushing asphalt. There is a reason we still go through the exercise of actually lining up the cars as the starting line.
4x4ord
Explorer III
Feb 24, 2020
Huntindog wrote:
So my takeaway from this is that Ford STILL doesn't test to SAE standards with a SAE witness.

As for if it matters....
A farmer who puts the fox in charge of the henhouse will soon run out of eggs.

Sorry fellas I disagree.
I have seen too many rules bent or broken in business when nobody is looking.
Something along these lines is in the news every day.
Prime example: Boeing was allowed to self validate a lot of stuff on a airplane that has been in the news a lot.... An airplane that had a couple of crashes killing hundreds of people. Then incriminating emails surfaced...

Sorry fellas, I disagree with you.

I'll bet there is very few of us who own the truck we own because we think it is the most powerful or the the one that would be first up a mountain. If Ford or any of the other manufacturers want to have their own standard by which they rate their engine's power output by it is totally fine with me. I guess the guys who are concerned about that sort of thing probably have aftermarket programmers and big smoke stacks.
Huntindog
Explorer
Feb 24, 2020
So my takeaway from this is that Ford STILL doesn't test to SAE standards with a SAE witness.

As for if it matters....
A farmer who puts the fox in charge of the henhouse will soon run out of eggs.

Sorry fellas I disagree.
I have seen too many rules bent or broken in business when nobody is looking.
Something along these lines is in the news every day.
Prime example: Boeing was allowed to self validate a lot of stuff on a airplane that has been in the news a lot.... An airplane that had a couple of crashes killing hundreds of people. Then incriminating emails surfaced...

Sorry fellas, I disagree with you.
ShinerBock
Explorer
Feb 24, 2020
Double post
ShinerBock
Explorer
Feb 24, 2020
Huntindog wrote:
So why then did the Dmax with less HP smoke the higher rated Ford for so many years?

Fact is with out a SAE witness to the testing, they can do anything they want. And get pretty much any rating they want...

I remember a MASH episode where Col. Potter was having trouble passing his drivers test, and wanted a "make up test".
his instructor, Rizzo said"Great idea, you can make up your own test, I bet you get a 100%."

Various reason. Turbo efficiencies/inefficiencies at altitude, heat soaked intercooler, trans tuning, rear gear, and so on. Depending on turbo compressor map, a truck that makes more power at sea level may not make more power at altitude. A truck may be fine at colder temps, but need to defuel to keep temps in check at higher outside temps. Horsepower is not static. It is always changing with many different variables effecting it.

Just look at the 3.5L Ecoboost versus the GM 6.2L Ecotec. At sea level, the 6.2L will outperform a 3.5L EB and righfully so since it makes more horsepower there. At altitude, the 3.5L EB will easily beat a 6.2L. This is not because GM is lying about their power numbers, but because conditions are effecting each trucks power output differently.
4x4ord
Explorer III
Feb 24, 2020
^^^ You're comparing peak HP numbers. If you go back and look at the rpm the Duramax used during the up hill runs you'll see that the transmission has always been tuned to keep the rpm level high. In addition the Duramax had a wide power curve... ie the power did not drop off quickly after peak HP was reached and the transmission was tuned to make use of that power. The Ford, on the other hand has always been tuned to run at much lower rpms. So even though the Ford engine was rated slightly higher, it never ran at the rpm where that higher HP was available. That is still true in the 2020 model, the Ford is tuned to operate at a much lower rpm level than the Duramax.
Huntindog
Explorer
Feb 24, 2020
ShinerBock wrote:
Huntindog wrote:

I understand precisely what you are saying.

One question: Does Ford do SAE testing procedures with a SAE witness or not?

If not, then you can dis the SAE standards all you want. The Fact would be that Ford tests without any "benchmark" standards. IOW, They can make up their own test standards.

Using a witness does not matter in what I am talking about since none(zero,zip, zilch, nada) of the SAE tests is sustained power. It is only short burst power. So having a witness has nothing to do with it.

Also, the tests standards(witness or not) have the same correction factors. Ford or any manufacturer could use the best correction factors today without a witness and then use the very same best correction factors next year with a witness and it would still be legit. A witness does not mean squat in this because it is legal to do witness or not, and a witness would still sign off on using the best correction factors because it is within the test parameters. I don't think you understand how the process works because you would not be saying what you are saying if you did.
So why then did the Dmax with less HP smoke the higher rated Ford for so many years?

Fact is with out a SAE witness to the testing, they can do anything they want. And get pretty much any rating they want...

I remember a MASH episode where Col. Potter was having trouble passing his drivers test, and wanted a "make up test".
his instructor, Rizzo said"Great idea, you can make up your own test, I bet you get a 100%."

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2020 IKE raw and unedited

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