2021 Ram 3500 H.O.

4x4ord wrote:


Shiner if you were a GM guy I wouldn’t bother arguing with you but Ford and Ram have been one upping one another for years while GM seems to stay out of the numbers war. I haven't kept track but I think Ram has probably been last up the hill in more TFL Ike pulls than anyone and GM has probably taken the most first place wins ... yet GM often has the lowest ratings.

Yes, and Ford has been last up the hill even with the highest power ratings. Like in the 2018 test towing 28.5k on the same day. The 450 hp rated Powerstroke with a 6-speed was a second or two slower than the 385 hp Cummins with a 6-speed. With 65 more rated horsepower, you would think the Powerstroke would mop the floor with the Cummins with the same speed transmission, but they likely settled into roughly the same sustained horsepower numbers as the test went on which is how people use these trucks in the real world. Not short burst 0-60 runs which as you say is what you have your Civic for.

They have all been within 20 seconds of each other in recent tests done at the same day with the same speed trans which is considered the same in my book given traffic over 8 miles. Either that or the higher power rated truck got their power at the start of the Ike to get a good 30-60 and the engine started to settle to more sustained power ratings making it more even as the test when on. I would bet that instead of starting from an onramp at 30 mph, if they would start the test already on the highway at 60 mph utilizing sustained power figures like the real world people do when towing, then times between them would be even closer.

I will also point out that while Ram has been in this pissing match with Ford(which I have pointed out many times as pointless), Cummins not as much. I know Ram has(when I was at Cummins) and probably still does want Cummins tune and rate their engine at the highest power ratings possible even if it isn't sustained, but that is not how they do things. The ratings are J1995 meaning that the engine supplier(Cummins) has control over them, not the vehicle manufacturer.

I have no doubts that the Cummins ratings would be much higher if Ram had control over the tuning and ratings, but in my opinion that is deceitful in a truck meant to tow. I would not find it deceitful in a half ton though since that truck is not meant to tow most of the time, but that is just my opinion. Basically you have one that says we will tune and rate this for 400 hp because that what you will get under most conditions when using the vehicle as intended and another who says we will tune and rate this for 475 hp, but it will back down to more sustained numbers when used as intended.

Then you also have the factor of ambient temps and altitude. If you test one truck at 60F and another at 90F, then the truck at 60F will be able to sustain higher power numbers (at least 25-50hp) than the truck at 90F. Not only that, but colder temps allow for more horsepower in general due to denser air with more oxygen content so
it will make more power on top of being able to sustain more. So testing two trucks at much different temps is not really a good comparison either and anyone who knows how diesel engines work would know this. I bet that if you took a 2020 PSD with a 22k trailer and tested it up Ike in the Summer at 90F and then in the Winter at 50F, then you would get at least a 30 second to a minute time difference.