Forum Discussion
- ^^^ I’m not saying that the Ford derated on the Ike pull. I’m pointing out that the Powerstoke’s rated torque is 1050 lbft @ 1600 rpm and 960 lbft @ 2600 rpm. Because it ran at about 2350 rpm pulling up the Ike it would be expected to make about 439HP at 2350 rpm. The Ram is rated at 1000 lbft @1800 rpm and 750 lbft @ 2800 so at 2350 it would be reasonable to expect it to produce about 863 lbft of torque and 386 hp @ 2350 rpm. If the Ram is rated honestly and pulled the hill in 11:33 then the Powerstroke should have pulled the hill in 10:20 based on its ratings..... and that’s exactly what it did. I’m just saying that Cummins doesn’t appear to be anymore honest than Ford in how they rate their engine. I realize that as you work these trucks in hot weather they derate. I don’t think either were pulling fuel on that run. I don’t know how much warmer it could get before each would start to pull fuel ..... I think it would be interesting to find out.
4x4ord wrote:
ShinerBock wrote:
You see, this is why I say it is deceptive when advertising short burst power. People think the other makes that advertise a more sustainable power rating when using the truck as intended need to "catch up" even though those other makes can do the same by tuning the engine to 475 or even 500 hp and then drop it down anytime these is a load on on the truck.
It is no different than 4x4Ford chastising me in another thread for saying I tow in my 475 rwhp tune because he thought it was deceptive to other people thinking I can sustain that power rating at max engine load, which I already explained that I could not and only call it the 475 hp tune because that is what it dynoed at. I guess Ford gets a pass on being deceptive since it is his favorite brand, however, how dare I say a Cummins makes 475 hp at the wheels, but gets backed down under max engine load for long periods of time.
I’m sure we can modify any of these new diesels to make 600 hp if that’s what we want. In stock form the Cummins is rated at 400 HP, who knows how much of that is sustainable on a hot day pulling a big load up a steep hill. The Ford is rated at 475 Hp .... on a hot day and steep hill I don’t expect it to sustain that level of power either. What we saw in the last TFL Ike pull the Ford, while running at 2100 rpm, was able to sustain way more power on a cold day on a long steep hill than the Ram was able to sustain under similar conditions running close to rated hp. At 2100 rpm the Ford, according to factory ratings, should only be producing about 400 hp; the Ram, according to factory ratings, should have been producing about 383 Hp at 2300 rpm. In actuality if the Cummins was producing 383 Hp to make it up the hill in 11:33 the Ford would have had to produce more than420 hp to get up the hill in the 10:20 that it accomplished it’s run in. So I don’t know where you get your idea from that Ford has power numbers that are so misleading. If Fords numbers are misleading, it seems to me they are underrating the truck not over rating it.
So why did you jump me for saying that I run my 475 rwhp tune? How is that any different than Ford saying they give you 475 hp and back it down as needed just as I said I did with my tune?
Unless those trucks ran those test on the same day or exact same temps and wind conditions, I don't pay attention to those numbers. Anyone with any experience towing knows that wind and ambient temps can have a huge effect on how well a truck can tow and at what power level especially in extreme conditions.ShinerBock wrote:
You see, this is why I say it is deceptive when advertising short burst power. People think the other makes that advertise a more sustainable power rating when using the truck as intended need to "catch up" even though those other makes can do the same by tuning the engine to 475 or even 500 hp and then drop it down anytime these is a load on on the truck.
It is no different than 4x4Ford chastising me in another thread for saying I tow in my 475 rwhp tune because he thought it was deceptive to other people thinking I can sustain that power rating at max engine load, which I already explained that I could not and only call it the 475 hp tune because that is what it dynoed at. I guess Ford gets a pass on being deceptive since it is his favorite brand, however, how dare I say a Cummins makes 475 hp at the wheels, but gets backed down under max engine load for long periods of time.
I’m sure we can modify any of these new diesels to make 600 hp if that’s what we want. In stock form the Cummins is rated at 400 HP, who knows how much of that is sustainable on a hot day pulling a big load up a steep hill. The Ford is rated at 475 Hp .... on a hot day and steep hill I don’t expect it to sustain that level of power either. What we saw in the last TFL Ike pull the Ford, while running at 2100 rpm, was able to sustain way more power on a cold day on a long steep hill than the Ram was able to sustain under similar conditions running close to rated hp. At 2100 rpm the Ford, according to factory ratings, should only be producing about 400 hp; the Ram, according to factory ratings, should have been producing about 383 Hp at 2300 rpm. In actuality if the Cummins was producing 383 Hp to make it up the hill in 11:33 the Ford would have had to produce more than420 hp to get up the hill in the 10:20 that it accomplished it’s run in. So I don’t know where you get your idea from that Ford has power numbers that are so misleading. If Fords numbers are misleading, it seems to me they are underrating the truck not over rating it.
Edit: I went back and watched the raw footage of the Ike run and observed how long each truck ran at a particular engine rpm. It turns out both trucks averaged about 2350 rpm. Based on the torque curve of the Cummins, it should make about 386 HP at 2350 rpm. If the Cummins used 386 HP to climb the hill in 11 minutes 33 seconds the math suggests it would take 438 HP to climb the hill in the 10 minutes 20 seconds it took the Ford. The Powerstroke's torque curve indicates it should make about 439 HP at 2350 rpm. Anyway I find that quite interesting. Both trucks performed exactly as you'd expect, relative to each other and based on their advertised torque curves. On a hot day I would expect both trucks to slow down .... and Shiner could be right that the Ford would derate more than the Ram. It would become a battle of the radiators.- You see, this is why I say it is deceptive when advertising short burst power. People think the other makes that advertise a more sustainable power rating when using the truck as intended need to "catch up" even though those other makes can do the same by tuning the engine to 475 or even 500 hp and then drop it down anytime these is a load on on the truck.
It is no different than 4x4Ford chastising me in another thread for saying I tow in my 475 rwhp tune because he thought it was deceptive to other people thinking I can sustain that power rating at max engine load, which I already explained that I could not and only call it the 475 hp tune because that is what it dynoed at. I guess Ford gets a pass on being deceptive since it is his favorite brand, however, how dare I say a Cummins makes 475 hp at the wheels, but gets backed down under max engine load for long periods of time. 4x4ord wrote:
I wonder if adding 150 lbft would add 150 to the 660 that your truck has stock or if the tuner would add 150 lb ft to the 800 lb ft of the automatic?
Either way, there’s stock engines pumping out more torque now and the almost 200k miles on our 07 mostly on the Crazy Larry tune (200 or 230 hp supposedly) means the entire drivetrain is fine with any reasonable “tow tune”.
Well save for the clutch, but blofgren has that covered already.- My guess is that Ford will wait for Ram and GM to catch up before they introduce a diesel electric hibrid. I think it makes sense to have electric drives capable of regenerative braking on our trailer axles. The trucks would have enough power if the trailers helped pull themselves up the hills.
- How long before Ford comes out with MOAR POWERRRR? Argh Argh Argh
- I wonder if adding 150 lbft would add 150 to the 660 that your truck has stock or if the tuner would add 150 lb ft to the 800 lb ft of the automatic?
4x4ord wrote:
How much torque will a towing tune give you?
I think between 100-150 ft-lbs. I could use a bit of extra grunt at times on long, steep pulls here in BC. My wife doesn’t pack light for a 3 week trip! :BShinerBock wrote:
You and my father in law are on opposites sides. He felt that his tuned (lowest level "tow" tune only) 2003 F350 6.0L towed better than his 2019 F350 and got slightly better fuel economy.
That it not a nice way to talk about your father in law!:)
