2wd vs 4wd

BenK wrote:
Nylon tow straps are DANGEROUS if you don't know HOW2 use them

So are tow chains! Have a look at this this video on the proper use of tow straps.

You need the energy stored in a stretchable tow strap to "snatch" the vehicle loose, especially in sand. What that kid did in the video you posted would have snapped a chain too, causing much worse damage. One of the comments posted on that video said that the shackle came loose from the stuck vehicle, that's what went through the window of the S-10.

Another good video on the proper use of recovery straps.

quote - -
Good thing your "circle" never lived 30 or 20 years ago when 4x4 was pretty rare..

BTW... been driving STUFF for over 35 years... I believe that falls in the 20-30 category... driven 2 wheel drive trucks... 4x4 trucks.. big one stack macks... freight shakers.. Nobody will convince me that a 2 wheel drive truck will go the same places as a 4x4...

ford truck guy wrote:

MPond wrote:

Gdetrailer wrote:
Pretty simple. I personally know quite a few people that bought 4x4s and don't have an idea as to how to engage 4x4.. These folks own lifted "boulevard queens" with wagon wheel rims and way oversized tires, drive in the city, their trucks have never touched dirt let alone mud.. Happens a lot more than you think..

...

So you have anecdotal evidence, just like I do. Only my anecdotal evidence is just the opposite of yours.

I wonder if there are any real statistics about it around? Would be much more interesting that either of our opinions...

AND in MY CIRCLE everyone who has 4X4 uses it many times a year ,between the weather , and surf fishing...

Good thing your "circle" never lived 30 or 20 years ago when 4x4 was pretty rare..

I learned years ago from my Dad who tended a oil well which was about 1/2 mile off a low priority paved road on how to drive on snow and ice with 2wd pickup.. We used to use the front end to plow through snow drifts right up to the hood..

Dad never owned a 4x4, he used real winter tires in the winter and only a couple of times I can recall we had to throw chains on to get into that well in the winter.

We also used to cut firewood and often drove his truck TOO the trees no matter how far off the road they were..

One of the most vivid memories of getting fire wood was when we PASSED up TWO 4x4s STUCK SIDEWAYS on a very steep MUDDY hill. At the bottom of the hill we broke out the chains and gave it heck.. Flew right past the stuck 4x4s..

The 4x4s had finally backed down and gave up by the time we had cut enough wood to load our truck.

Yep, folks now days think 4x4 is the only way to do things..

By the way, 4x4 on ice, doesn't stop you any faster.. Every year I see many 4x4s sliding off icy roads planting their vehicles in such ways you really wonder just how they did it..

4x4 often gives folks overconfidence and they find themselves in far more trouble far quicker than one would expect..

Seen that this morning, riding with a coworker (front wheel drive car) we had a quick lake effect snow dump an inch of snow.

The road crews had not gotten any salt down and my coworker was struggling to keep the car on the road. Only a mile from my house we started down a steep hill and noticed vehicles off the side of the road halfway down the hill.. We slid to a stop, moved to the shoulder and two 4x4s zipped past us.. They slide off the road in front of us when they realized the hill was impassible..

We turned around and went home.. We made the smart choice.

When the roads are extremely bad with snow and ice, I simply go back to bed, work can wait another day.

As far as camping on sand, I have no interest in that, while I do like visit beaches I just don't wish to park my stuff on sand dunes. Besides the beaches I visit there is no parking or driving on them allowed..

Resale.. by the time I am ready to give up on a vehicle it is done, totally worn out with high mileage.. I have a 2003 F250 with 5.4 right now that has 200,000 miles on the clock, with that mileage resale on 4x2 is around $5K, 4x4 would be $6.5K, a difference of $1.5K which is less than half of what 4x4 option would have cost back then..

It isn't my daily driver now, was replaced by a 2013 F250 4x2.. DD will most likely get to start driving with the '03 in a couple of years and that most likely will beat the rest of the snot out of that truck.. When we are done with it the worn out bald tires will have more value than he rest of the truck.

Heck I have a 1970s rear wheel drive car which I bought used when I started driving, it has 297,000 miles on it.. Drove it daily up to '99. I am currently doing a total tear down and restoration of the body.. Had a lot of fun with that one.

Always shake my head watching folks out at Pismo in the ocean water,
which has salt. One of the worst things you can do to your vehicles
electrical system

Airing down below 15PSI is too low...you can loose a bead...why lots of serious
off roaders and tractor pulls will have holes drilled along the bead area and
Type AB screws into the tire bead. That keeps the tires from moving on the bead

I've lost all air out of four 16.5 tires while out in the Boise Panhandle. Took
me two days hiking to find someone who would help and then it took us one whole
day to reseat those four tires

Nylon tow straps are DANGEROUS if you don't know HOW2 use them

Just do a search on YouTube "tow strap breaks". Early days had them too small
and with metal rings/hooks/etc at both ends....that became flying projectiles
that then smashed through one or the other vehicle

Part of why I don't help 'pull someone out' much anymore out there. When I do
warn them and tell them to hook up to their own vehicle's frame. Most will just
wrap it around their bumper. Best to offer a ride to find that kind
of help. I've seen a guy threaten to sue another who helped...but the
stuckee hooked the strap to his bumper...not a frame member...and the
bumper bent...to leave him still stuck in the ditch

Personally prefer chains to nylon tow straps


Tow strap snaps and breaks rear window




Maybe some instructions next time... and
is where the quote below is taken from

benk wrote:
Why I dislike tow straps or really how folks use them and store them.

Sand/dirt/etc is very bad 'cuz it makes micro cuts in the fiber

Plus, the way folks use them is to take a running start to sling shot (rubber
band) someone out.

Sling shot, or rubber band, has tons (literally) of energy and if something should
come off, this can happen







Ever wonder why the recommendation is to have a blanket tossed over
the tow strap? Even steel cable should have a blanket as a parachute
but steel cable doesn't have as much stored energy (stretch)

Plus these folks are breeding...

With my 19.5" tires, I really cannot air down enough to make a difference. This does limit where I can travel, but does not exclude me from beaches. Since we have off-road toys with us, we go as far in as conditions permit and set up camp. The toys then take us places where we would never reach with a camper.

That is an interesting twist on the story I heard about those campers going through the tide - Maybe someone was trying to protect the ignorant. We annually head toward the south eastern edge of CA and have not been out to Pismo yet.

Turtle n Peeps wrote:

Grit dog wrote:

Turtle n Peeps wrote:

As far as 4 wd not helping in turning or stopping, you have obviously never driven in snow with 4wd so don't spout false statements.

I don't have a 4x but I'm still trying to figure out how a 4x stops better that 2WD? :h Please explain?

Well the first part is you don't have a 4x. 2nd part is, even with abs, stability control and all that cr@p, if both axles are locked together, you will get much more stopping power before you lock up a wheel or kick in the abs.

You not only were mistaken about how a 4x system works and when it's safe to use it you also don't have a clue on how ABS works.

ABS will not let any wheel lock up. That's what ABS is for. it's designed so no wheel locks up. If all the wheels are locked together the ABS will find the one with the least amount of traction and will not let that wheel lock up. Since they are all locked together even the ones with good or better traction will suffer from less braking ability.

Thank you for listening in to the ABS and physics lesson of the day. :B Please sign the guest list on the way out. :)

Haha man, OMG. Have you ever driven in snow?
You are correct that ABS will not let any wheel lock up unless it's older 2 wheel abs.
But but 4wd IS the original abs. If both axles are locked together then the wheel with the least traction will not lock up until they all do because they are PHysically connected to each other. Then abs will kick in.
No point in arguing with those uninformed. But if you ever want to test the theory c'mon up here and we can run an ice track and a 4 wd even old school with no electronic controls will smoke a 2 wheeler with all the electronics hands down. Cuz it will brake an turn faster being able to use all wheels linked together for stopping ability and being able to steer with the throttle through the steering axle.

MPond wrote:

Bedlam wrote:
If you have not at least tried beach camping once, you will never know if that is the type camping you want to do again.

The first video was of campers that got trapped when the tide was coming in. If they did not make that run, the water would eventually reach them. It was poor planning on their part to be on that section of beach without knowing the tide tables. We ride the Oregon coast in off-road vehicles always make sure we are aware of the tides and where the exit points off the beach are located.

There are times when you hit a soft dry patch of sand where even 4wd does not help you. This why you use a buddy system to help each other out. If your buddy had 2wd in these conditions, he would be more of a hindrance than help.

Both videos are from Pismo Beach, and they weren't trapped at all at the river crossing - just impatient and not willing to wait for low-tide. You can wait on either side of the river crossing above the high-tide line without any problems. When the tide goes back out, it changes from a river to a stream...

And if you air-down properly, you can take a heavey rig w/4wd through the softest sand. I've taken my 5-er (around 17k lbs at the ime) & 4x4 Duramax on that very beach. With all 12 tires aired down to 13 lbs, I easily drove it all the way out on the soft sand to the base of the dunes. The problem with the 2nd video is that it appears they have not aired down.

In my
Assateague Island National Seashore days ,I always carried a Schrader valve puller ,and compressor... I agree that they DO NOT look like they aired down... BUT I never took the camper...

Turtle n Peeps wrote:

ford truck guy wrote:
Hey BurbMan ,

Where is that spot ???

I always wanted a 4 wheel drive so I could do this while camping. This guy gets the good spots all the time!

This looks like great fun if you have a 4 wheel drive!

LOVE those old Pismo videos !!! The 1st brain surgeon was the best !!

Bedlam wrote:
If you have not at least tried beach camping once, you will never know if that is the type camping you want to do again.

The first video was of campers that got trapped when the tide was coming in. If they did not make that run, the water would eventually reach them. It was poor planning on their part to be on that section of beach without knowing the tide tables. We ride the Oregon coast in off-road vehicles always make sure we are aware of the tides and where the exit points off the beach are located.

There are times when you hit a soft dry patch of sand where even 4wd does not help you. This why you use a buddy system to help each other out. If your buddy had 2wd in these conditions, he would be more of a hindrance than help.

Both videos are from Pismo Beach, and they weren't trapped at all at the river crossing - just impatient and not willing to wait for low-tide. You can wait on either side of the river crossing above the high-tide line without any problems. When the tide goes back out, it changes from a river to a stream...

And if you air-down properly, you can take a heavey rig w/4wd through the softest sand. I've taken my 5-er (around 17k lbs at the ime) & 4x4 Duramax on that very beach. With all 12 tires aired down to 13 lbs, I easily drove it all the way out on the soft sand to the base of the dunes. The problem with the 2nd video is that it appears they have not aired down.

If you have not at least tried beach camping once, you will never know if that is the type camping you want to do again.

The first video was of campers that got trapped when the tide was coming in. If they did not make that run, the water would eventually reach them. It was poor planning on their part to be on that section of beach without knowing the tide tables. We ride the Oregon coast in off-road vehicles always make sure we are aware of the tides and where the exit points off the beach are located.

There are times when you hit a soft dry patch of sand where even 4wd does not help you. This why you use a buddy system to help each other out. If your buddy had 2wd in these conditions, he would be more of a hindrance than help.