AC tripping generator
Hey all. I seem to be having some AC issues unfortunately. I ran some diagnostics but I haven't been able to figure out the problem. I'm using a Westinghouse igen4500df generator. This should be mo...
Forum Discussion
Hi Mdk4020,
I'll respond here in your generator post, so it ties together better.
Here are a few things to help explain the older Brisk Air controls that apply to your 2002 AC system. There are three main parts to the AC system in controls.
1. The roof unit. This is what is in the roof itself. The roof unit has fan and compressor motors, motor capacitors, and a wiring harness with a 6-wire white plastic plug into a control box inside the camper. That is the extent of the controls on the roof. There are no contactors or other control devices up on the roof to start or stop the motors. Motor control comes from the control box.
Look like this. The silver junction box houses the capacitors.
Inside the capacitor junction box. NOTE: pending the age and vintage of the roof unit, you may or may not have 2 capacitors in this box.
The wiring diagram from the side of the capacitor box
NOTE: The little black capacitor is called out at "COMP STARTER" on that wiring diag. This extra smaller capacitor is not always used, it helps the compressor get started by boosting the start voltage as that vintage compressor needs the extra help.
The other capacitor is a split capacitor, part of it for the fan, the other part for the compressor the Mfd ratings are different for each part. This split capacitor comes in a few shapes, round and sometimes white or silver or oval again pending the vintage. Here is the top of a round silver one.
2. The control box, is a silver metal box inside the camper up in the ceiling where the air intake grill is and the mesh filter. This box is where the fan and motor contactors (relays) are located on a PC board. The 6 wire white plug from the roof unit plugs into this box.
NOTE: There are a few versions of this control box. This picture is from the older analog T stat system.
At this point, we (nor you) know if you are on the analog or the bi-metal control box. Those are the 2 main types of control boxes; they are wired a little differently and have different control power sources.
The analog control uses 12 VDC from the camper DC system to power up the control board.
The bi-metal controls use 120 VAC to run a transformer on the control box board to create the control voltage to run the AC controls.
Your 2002 camper might be on either of those 2 control boxes. Ideally, you understand what you have for now and future troubleshooting.
3. The T stat. The T stat sends signals to the control box to run the roof unit or not. There are other features the T stat does, but again the analog T stat and the bi-metal T stat are different. We need to know which you have.
This pic is of the analog T stat.
Behind the cover of the T stat
The above is more to help you understand how the 3 main parts of the AC controls work. There is more going on with the T stat, the furnace interlocks, and possibly why your genny is having issues, but I need to know if you are on the analog control or the bi-metal.
Each main control part has different part numbers. The roof unit you posted the model number for is only the roof unit. The roof unit works with many different control systems.
The control box has its own part number, and so does the T stat.
I can tell which vintage you have by the looks of the T stat. Please post a pic of your T stat. . If it is like the T stat above in my pic, you are on the analog system. The bi-metal system looks very different. I do not have a pic handy of that T stat.
Now to your Micor air. I'm not sure if you sorted out your wiring issue yet. Here are a few big-picture things.
Here is your wiring diagram from the other post
https://gcdnb.pbrd.co/images/muahNFRxR0uK.jpg
When going with the Micor air, you have to abandon the small black capacitor called COMP STARTER on the wiring diagram.
The color codes can be confusing. These pics from my last Micro Air install may help. This is a newer Dometic Brisk air unit, but the roof unit wiring should align with yours.
Here is the blue compressor tie-in that is calling out. I used a black wire to extend the Micro air black wire
The Micro air (MA) cable casing is gray; it shows the brown (MA)-to-white (DOM)from the compressor (must be the white from the compressor) and black (my wire)-to-black (MA) connections and the red (MA) plugs into the capacitor red, and the white MA with the yellow connection hood also plugs into the capacitor.
Here is a link to my Flickr photo site with more pic of the micro air install, which may help.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/camper-johnb/albums/72177720307672421
The Micro air needs the first 5 starts to work right to train (learn) the unit how to optimize the starting profile. There are instructions on how to do this on a genny. See page 26 in the Micro Air instructions. https://www.micro-air.com/support-documents/installation_resources/EasyStart_364_Installation_Guide_for_Dometic_Family_RV_ACs.pdf
Since you had a few messed up starts on the first 5 starts, I'm unsure how to reset the starts. And I'm unsure how the soft-start will react to those messed-up first starts. You may have to call them on Monday on how to reset the learning process to get the system optimized.
I hope this helps, and please let me know about your T stat; I can explain the rest of the AC controls for the future once I know which you have if you want.
Let us know how it goes.
John
I'll respond here in your generator post, so it ties together better.
Here are a few things to help explain the older Brisk Air controls that apply to your 2002 AC system. There are three main parts to the AC system in controls.
1. The roof unit. This is what is in the roof itself. The roof unit has fan and compressor motors, motor capacitors, and a wiring harness with a 6-wire white plastic plug into a control box inside the camper. That is the extent of the controls on the roof. There are no contactors or other control devices up on the roof to start or stop the motors. Motor control comes from the control box.
Look like this. The silver junction box houses the capacitors.
Inside the capacitor junction box. NOTE: pending the age and vintage of the roof unit, you may or may not have 2 capacitors in this box.
The wiring diagram from the side of the capacitor box
NOTE: The little black capacitor is called out at "COMP STARTER" on that wiring diag. This extra smaller capacitor is not always used, it helps the compressor get started by boosting the start voltage as that vintage compressor needs the extra help.
The other capacitor is a split capacitor, part of it for the fan, the other part for the compressor the Mfd ratings are different for each part. This split capacitor comes in a few shapes, round and sometimes white or silver or oval again pending the vintage. Here is the top of a round silver one.
2. The control box, is a silver metal box inside the camper up in the ceiling where the air intake grill is and the mesh filter. This box is where the fan and motor contactors (relays) are located on a PC board. The 6 wire white plug from the roof unit plugs into this box.
NOTE: There are a few versions of this control box. This picture is from the older analog T stat system.
At this point, we (nor you) know if you are on the analog or the bi-metal control box. Those are the 2 main types of control boxes; they are wired a little differently and have different control power sources.
The analog control uses 12 VDC from the camper DC system to power up the control board.
The bi-metal controls use 120 VAC to run a transformer on the control box board to create the control voltage to run the AC controls.
Your 2002 camper might be on either of those 2 control boxes. Ideally, you understand what you have for now and future troubleshooting.
3. The T stat. The T stat sends signals to the control box to run the roof unit or not. There are other features the T stat does, but again the analog T stat and the bi-metal T stat are different. We need to know which you have.
This pic is of the analog T stat.
Behind the cover of the T stat
The above is more to help you understand how the 3 main parts of the AC controls work. There is more going on with the T stat, the furnace interlocks, and possibly why your genny is having issues, but I need to know if you are on the analog control or the bi-metal.
Each main control part has different part numbers. The roof unit you posted the model number for is only the roof unit. The roof unit works with many different control systems.
The control box has its own part number, and so does the T stat.
I can tell which vintage you have by the looks of the T stat. Please post a pic of your T stat. . If it is like the T stat above in my pic, you are on the analog system. The bi-metal system looks very different. I do not have a pic handy of that T stat.
Now to your Micor air. I'm not sure if you sorted out your wiring issue yet. Here are a few big-picture things.
Here is your wiring diagram from the other post
https://gcdnb.pbrd.co/images/muahNFRxR0uK.jpg
When going with the Micor air, you have to abandon the small black capacitor called COMP STARTER on the wiring diagram.
The color codes can be confusing. These pics from my last Micro Air install may help. This is a newer Dometic Brisk air unit, but the roof unit wiring should align with yours.
Here is the blue compressor tie-in that is calling out. I used a black wire to extend the Micro air black wire
The Micro air (MA) cable casing is gray; it shows the brown (MA)-to-white (DOM)from the compressor (must be the white from the compressor) and black (my wire)-to-black (MA) connections and the red (MA) plugs into the capacitor red, and the white MA with the yellow connection hood also plugs into the capacitor.
Here is a link to my Flickr photo site with more pic of the micro air install, which may help.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/camper-johnb/albums/72177720307672421
The Micro air needs the first 5 starts to work right to train (learn) the unit how to optimize the starting profile. There are instructions on how to do this on a genny. See page 26 in the Micro Air instructions. https://www.micro-air.com/support-documents/installation_resources/EasyStart_364_Installation_Guide_for_Dometic_Family_RV_ACs.pdf
Since you had a few messed up starts on the first 5 starts, I'm unsure how to reset the starts. And I'm unsure how the soft-start will react to those messed-up first starts. You may have to call them on Monday on how to reset the learning process to get the system optimized.
I hope this helps, and please let me know about your T stat; I can explain the rest of the AC controls for the future once I know which you have if you want.
Let us know how it goes.
John
