My Forest River Salem has electric 'stabilizer' jacks (pivot, won't work for side/side leveling even IF they were strong enough). And the usual front A frame jack. I do NOT like to drive onto (2x6, lego blocks, curvy plastic thingies, etc). I rather put the trailer exactly where I want it, THEN do all the leveling. Front/back leveling with the front A frame jack is no issue. For side to side, I would like to add scissor jacks on (or near, 3/4 points, else) the main frame at each corner. From this weeks stay, it seems that most (all?) not so new trailers have just that. I watched dozens setting up (some with hand crank, some with power drill/impact). My trailer has a max weight of 7000 lbs. The main rails are one piece, going from front to back (no welds, no steps). a) is it ok to 'lift' at the ends or near the ends of the main rails? b) with theoretically 1/2 of the weight (3500 lbs) on one jack, should I pick 3500 lbs jacks, or go even higher? I am not sure yet if I will permanently mount (if it works, I likely will), either weld on or bolt on (only reason not to would be weight/inertia added to the rear. Also, if it works, I would REMOVE the electric stabilizers (the jacks will level AND stabilize) and maybe use the MOTORS (2 on hand. would by 2 more) and add 2 more switches for 'electric' leveling (not AUTO leveling). Does someone have experience with this modification? Concerns, suggestions, ideas?

Stabilizers are not meant to be levelers. Putting upward force on individual points on the frame to raise it could cause some twisting of the frame. Best to stay with putting something under the wheels for side to side leveling.The front jack is designed for leveling and connected to the frame accordingly.

Main reason I could see is frame flex causing damage to house. I would think planning and education would be a simpler solution. Find a level spot (side to side) Mount a level on front, with bubble on center. Now lay 1 of your blocks next to tires on 1 side. Put a chock behind tire on other side. Pull out so tire is just clear the ramp, slide ramp behind tire, and back up to chock. Mark where bubble is. Repeat with 2, then 3 high ramp, then same on other side. Now you have the level marked so you know how high the ramp needs to be when you get camper where you want it, build the ramp beside low tire, chock behind high. Pull up, move ramp sideways, and put trailer back where you want it. If you don't want to calibrate the level on front of trailer you can lay a 2 ft whiskey stick on the floor. Lift the end to center bubble, then measure from end to floor. For each half inch add a 2X10 to your stack.

vtraudt wrote:My Forest River Salem has electric 'stabilizer' jacks (pivot, won't work for side/side leveling even IF they were strong enough). And the usual front A frame jack. Stabilizers are for "stabilization", period. Never designed or intended to "level".They are there solely to reduce the up and down motion in the trailer when walking or moving about in said trailer unless it something like a motor home which is a whole nuther ball of wax.vtraudt wrote: I do NOT like to drive onto (2x6, lego blocks, curvy plastic thingies, etc). I rather put the trailer exactly where I want it, THEN do all the leveling. Front/back leveling with the front A frame jack is no issue. WHY?Extremely easy to setup using blocking under the wheels to level.Park in your desired spot.Pull forward 5 ft (or the length of your boards), place boards behind the trailer wheels.Backup on top of the boards.You will get within several inches of your desired spot and be level.vtraudt wrote: For side to side, I would like to add scissor jacks on (or near, 3/4 points, else) the main frame at each corner. From this weeks stay, it seems that most (all?) not so new trailers have just that. I watched dozens setting up (some with hand crank, some with power drill/impact). My trailer has a max weight of 7000 lbs. The main rails are one piece, going from front to back (no welds, no steps). a) is it ok to 'lift' at the ends or near the ends of the main rails? b) with theoretically 1/2 of the weight (3500 lbs) on one jack, should I pick 3500 lbs jacks, or go even higher? I am not sure yet if I will permanently mount (if it works, I likely will), either weld on or bolt on (only reason not to would be weight/inertia added to the rear. Also, if it works, I would REMOVE the electric stabilizers (the jacks will level AND stabilize) and maybe use the MOTORS (2 on hand. would by 2 more) and add 2 more switches for 'electric' leveling (not AUTO leveling). Does someone have experience with this modification? Concerns, suggestions, ideas?A) NO, not "OK" to lift all the weight at the ends of the frame.Frame and the box on top of the frame are designed and built for all the weight to bear down on the axles, lifting trailer at the ends will flex the frame and the box on top in ways that it shouldn't be flexed. You might not see the damage immediately but repeated extreme flexing has the potential to rip the bolts holding the box on top right through the wood framing of the floor.B) You are on your own on this but I would think about a jack that can handle MORE than "half the load" would be a better choice because there is a good chance one jack will end up taking more weight than the other. Just way to unpredictable of a setup so erroring on the safer side should always be the rule of the day.Something else you are missing, if you lift the trailer enough that the wheels loose contact with the ground, how are you planning to keep the trailer from moving forward and backwards????Effectively you are removing the safety of chocking your wheels, wheel chocks are a very important safety item, only chock one side of trailer and now you have a good chance that the trailer can pivot and turn and you measly little jacks cannot stop that from happening.If blocking under the wheels is not your cup o tea, then perhaps rethink your RV choice, perhaps a motor home with hydraulic jacks is the way you need to go.. They are designed to be able to be lifted off the ground via jacks.

First, OP understands that the stab jacks aren't levelers, so use your reading skills folks.OP, to me, it seems the level of effort required to level with jacks or under the wheels is of a similar effort, however your idea is pretty creative and sound IMO if you want to go through that effort of installing. The one down-side I see is stability or frame flex potentially. Currently, trailer is supported in basically 5 spots per side, tongue jack, front stab, 2 axles and rear stab. You'd be reducing those 5 points to 3 effectively. I'd do a test manually. 1/4 and 3/4 points on the frame seem about right. I'd just crib up at those points on one side, taking weight off the wheels and see how it feels from a flex standpoint and verify your jacking points will be acceptable before diving in with a permanent solution.

Gdetrailer wrote:A) NO, not "OK" to lift all the weight at the ends of the frame.Frame and the box on top of the frame are designed and built for all the weight to bear down on the axles, lifting trailer at the ends will flex the frame and the box on top in ways that it shouldn't be flexed. You might not see the damage immediately but repeated extreme flexing has the potential to rip the bolts holding the box on top right through the wood framing of the floor.Something else you are missing, if you lift the trailer enough that the wheels loose contact with the ground, how are you planning to keep the trailer from moving forward and backwards????Effectively you are removing the safety of chocking your wheels, wheel chocks are a very important safety item, only chock one side of trailer and now you have a good chance that the trailer can pivot and turn and you measly little jacks cannot stop that from happening.To your first point, I don't see supporting the trailer in a static condition, with anything less than a house party with 20 people jammed in the RV rocking out to some hip hop, ever being anywhere near what the dynamic stresses are throughout the trailer while being towed. If it survives abrupt bridge approaches, humps, dips and potholes at 70mph, it will be fine with a couple people walking around. But yeah, I wouldn't put the stab jacks at the front and back. 1/4 points or 1/3 points would be more effective and appropriate.To the wheel chocks, yes, this isn't an "all conditions" type setup, but it's not an issue at all really in any "normal" conditions, maybe up to a 10% slope, idk.Trailer parked, both sides chocked from rolling whichever way the slope runs. Jacks go down and lift one side. Other side is still planted on the wheels and chocked. The low side, as the weight comes off, the trailer is supported by a jack that is rotationally resistant. Not an issue in the least, with a bit of common sense. (which one would assume that anyone fabbing their own stabilizer system would have).

Adding scissor jacks for side to side leveling | Good Sam Community

Gdetrailer
Explorer III
Aug 28, 2021
vtraudt wrote:

Using Tires (here: axles): I will do a trial run (already have a hydraulic jack on hand) and lifting one axle at a time to put boards under the tires (or put a jack stand under the axle) to level. Reason for investigating the frame lift option: axles not easily accessible for jacking up.
Using FRAME near AXLE: best of both worlds? Same stress to chassis, yet better accessible than axle. Will try this FIRST (tailer in driveway, tilting terrible to one side).

HAVE to get one (two) of those 'curved' and 'scaled' levels (thanks for the link!).

Not sure what the aversion to simply backing your trailer onto a board is. Way easier than placing a jack, jacking up then placing board then dropping jack.

The way I do this is place my trailer where I want it to be parked.

Then I pull forward just enough to place my board behind the rear tire.

Then I backup just enough to get both tires onto the board.

This operation takes one time getting out of vehicle, grab board, set board and get into vehicle. A little practice and it can be done in less than two minutes.

Much, much easier, faster and safer than the way you propose.

Graduated level in inches should be very helpful. I don't have them but I do seem to have a knack for noticing approximately how much it is out of level from nearly 20yrs of towing a travel trailer.

a "2 by" is typically 1.5" thick, for less lift you can get "5/4 boards" typically sold as decking planks that is right on the money at 1" thick.

Lots of easy ways to do this without dreaming up complicated ways to do the same thing..

Seems like a lot of folks want to create a "Rube Goldberg" type of solution for everything. I prefer the direct and to the point route to all things in life.
aftermath
Explorer III
Aug 28, 2021
vtraudt, I have another idea for you to consider. I purchased a Level Mate Pro system for my trailer. It is an electronic gizmo that I use with my cell phone. When I get to the campsite, I turn it on and it tells me that I am off by 1.5 inches on the driver side. I have a combination of planks and boards that I can drive up on. Bingo! I am set. I don't have to guess and make a number of tries, just put in what I need and I am good. It is a bit spendy but easy to set up and really easy to use. Used it for over a year now and it continues to simplify things for me. Google it and learn more.
Gdetrailer
Explorer III
Aug 28, 2021
aftermath wrote:
vtraudt, I have another idea for you to consider. I purchased a Level Mate Pro system for my trailer. It is an electronic gizmo that I use with my cell phone. When I get to the campsite, I turn it on and it tells me that I am off by 1.5 inches on the driver side. I have a combination of planks and boards that I can drive up on. Bingo! I am set. I don't have to guess and make a number of tries, just put in what I need and I am good. It is a bit spendy but easy to set up and really easy to use. Used it for over a year now and it continues to simplify things for me. Google it and learn more.

Link to Amazon page for Level Mate Pro HERE

Spendy for sure, but takes the guessing out of the picture..
Huntindog
Explorer
Aug 28, 2021
There is more to this than what meets the eye.
Most trailer frames are "cambered".
This is running weld beads at specific locations and patterns on the frame rails. This process slightly bends the frame, and more importantly strengthens it while adding a springyness to it. This allows for a lighter frame to be used, as the cambering puts the strong points just where it is needed. The locations/type of cambering are determined by the engineers,based on the expected loads for each trailers design. I became somewhat educated on this when having a sidebar dialog with Jbarca on a frame repair project he was undertaking. Curious about what I was reading, I grabbed some 10' metal stock from my pile and sparked up the welder. It was very enlightening. Each weld bead I ran caused measurable movements in the straightness of the stock compared to an identical unwelded control piece. More importantly the feel of the cambered stock changed dramactically. It felt more alive, with a definant springness that made it want to bounce back to its unloaded state as load was applied to it. The control piece felt dead and weak in comparisson. with out the "bounce back property of the cambered piece. IOW, applying enough force to permanently bend it was much easier.

As to what this means to what you plan on doing: I would only apply such force at a location that it was designed to take it. A jack as close as possible to the wheels should be pretty safe. Other than that, is a roll of the dice. You could end up applying force in a direction where the cambering is in the wrong direction to the force you are applying. Nothing good could come of that.
Your frames cambering can be in different locations and directions, and can be impossible to see once the trailer is built.
JRscooby
Explorer II
Aug 28, 2021
vtraudt wrote:
Thanks for the input (qualified or guts feeling/opinion).

Some thoughts:
Flex: if the frame flexes so much, every time I push it up with the front jack, it will flex (actually same or worse than putting one jack for example at 3/4 point in the rear)

It's yours you can do what you want.
When you lift the front normally the whole house/frame pivot as a unit on the suspension. Your added jack would stop that pivot, and extend the span. (lay a 2X10 on supports 6 feet apart, walk on it. Now put the supports 10 feet apart. Feel the bounce?)

Flex: dynamic flex (bouncing up/down during thousands of miles) would completley desintegrade the house if static lift is flexing so much that i might cause damage.

First, miles do show on a TT. But the design expects force applied upward from the suspension and tongue. That force increases and decreases, but the location does not change.

I will do a trial run (already have a hydraulic jack on hand) and lifting one axle at a time to put boards under the tires (or put a jack stand under the axle) to level. Reason for investigating the frame lift option: axles not easily accessible for jacking up.

Axles are not accessible True. But IMHO, the frame ain't much better. OTOH, placing a board is much easier, and moving the trailer is a piece of chicken.

Using FRAME near AXLE: best of both worlds? Same stress to chassis, yet better accessible than axle. Will try this FIRST (tailer in driveway, tilting terrible to one side).

The frame near where suspension mounts is a good place to jack, but will not do much to stabilize

HAVE to get one (two) of those 'curved' and 'scaled' levels (thanks for the link!).

The vial in all levels is curved. I started with that kind, but prefer adding my marks so I don't need to convert inches to blocks. Years of pulling a enddump, I normally park where it's level, then ask wife if there is a better place.

The issues most have with leveling on blocks or boards are pretty easy to solve. Ramp moves when backing on; Often just unplug light cord so trailer brakes don't work. Or it might be the ramp is too steep for size of tires. Cut better angle, or bolt rubber flap so weight holds ramp in place when start up.
The height of ramp is wrong when get on it. Built wrong height? Solved with calibrated level. Or as often, decide need 1 block, place block someplace else. When get in that place, need 2. This is solved by moving trailer, building ramp, then return to that spot.
Huntindog wrote:
There is more to this than what meets the eye.
Most trailer frames are "cambered".

Thank you. And I bet that the trailers that have powered leveling the frame is designed from jump, it is not just added on.
valhalla360
Navigator
Aug 28, 2021
Huntindog wrote:
There is more to this than what meets the eye.
Most trailer frames are "cambered".
This is running weld beads at specific locations and patterns on the frame rails. This process slightly bends the frame, and more importantly strengthens it while adding a springyness to it. This allows for a lighter frame to be used, as the cambering puts the strong points just where it is needed. The locations/type of cambering are determined by the engineers,based on the expected loads for each trailers design. I became somewhat educated on this when having a sidebar dialog with Jbarca on a frame repair project he was undertaking. Curious about what I was reading, I grabbed some 10' metal stock from my pile and sparked up the welder. It was very enlightening. Each weld bead I ran caused measurable movements in the straightness of the stock compared to an identical unwelded control piece. More importantly the feel of the cambered stock changed dramactically. It felt more alive, with a definant springness that made it want to bounce back to its unloaded state as load was applied to it. The control piece felt dead and weak in comparisson. with out the "bounce back property of the cambered piece. IOW, applying enough force to permanently bend it was much easier.

As to what this means to what you plan on doing: I would only apply such force at a location that it was designed to take it. A jack as close as possible to the wheels should be pretty safe. Other than that, is a roll of the dice. You could end up applying force in a direction where the cambering is in the wrong direction to the force you are applying. Nothing good could come of that.
Your frames cambering can be in different locations and directions, and can be impossible to see once the trailer is built.

That is not what cambering is.

Cambering is building an unloaded beam with a curve such that when it is loaded, the load bends it back to straight.

I've never seen a travel trailer frame with cambering...certainly no geometric weld patterns and it doesn't add springiness.

That said, I do agree that if you are going to lift the trailer, doing it at the intended support points is the best idea.
GrandpaKip
Explorer II
Aug 28, 2021
Why not use Andersen types of levelers? I put the camper where I want it, put the levelers down, roll forward or backward a few inches, watch my level, and, presto!, it’s done.
As said by HDog, frames are cambered and you really shouldn’t be screwing around with that.
vtraudt
Explorer
Aug 28, 2021
GrandpaKip wrote:
Why not use Andersen types of levelers? I put the camper where I want it, put the levelers down, roll forward or backward a few inches, watch my level, and, presto!, it’s done.

I may give that a try. Are those type levels tire size dependent?
I have 14" tires.
vtraudt
Explorer
Aug 28, 2021
GrandpaKip wrote:

As said by HDog, frames are cambered and you really shouldn’t be screwing around with that.

No plans on screwing around with the frames, or change anything if they are cambered (need to check, haven't noticed; if so, would only be in the axle area, certainly not forwards/backward from there).
opnspaces
Navigator II
Aug 28, 2021
Give it a try with a cheap bottle jack or two and see if everything works out. I know on my trailer if I get too aggressive with the corner jacks it warps the frame and the bathroom door won't close or latch. The first time I experienced this the striker was a full 1 inch above the hole in the door jamb. And my trailer is an older Jayco with a pretty stout one piece I-beam frame.