Advice on TC for 12 month trip to Europe

Kayteg1 wrote:
If you consider Sprinter, do extensive homework.
Those sold in US under Dodge badge were actually Fiats.
Strange how economy goes.

Hi. This is incorrect. Perhaps take your own advice? Cheers.

Hi, all! Greece is definitely a great choice for RV fans. Especially Mountain Pelion, The Peloponnese Peninsula and Zagorochoria. You are going to love it! You may read more tips on road trips in Greece at www.hostelbay.com

If you consider Sprinter, do extensive homework.
Those sold in US under Dodge badge were actually Fiats.
Strange how economy goes.

but Sprinter vans in Europe are regularly reported to make 2,000,000 km without overhaul, so even buying older one is not coming with high risk.

...LOL, I have no doubt that the Sprinter "mechanicals" will go very, very far, but thinking back to the last 2 Sprinters I saw on the roads around Quebec, literally the entire body above the frameworks were so rusted out, I'm sure the drivers of those vans was feeling like they were driving a block of hole-filled Swiss cheese :B

I imagine that the EU countries have very little ice melt chemicals on the roads (at least, perhaps they don't use ice melt chemicals longer than the months of January/February, unlike on this side of the Pond, where they are used for at least 6 months of the winter) ?

If if wanted to keep a Sprinter for the long term, I would anti-rust spray under-coat it every season...

sabconsulting wrote:
Very good advice from Joerg.

As many of you know I live in the UK and travel extensively around Europe. I would never consider a DRW truck over here. You want to travel and see the beautiful spots. That includes travelling over mountain passes in the Alps or single-track roads in Scotland. Get a large vehicle and you will find yourself constrained to the less attractive places and unable to get near city, town or even village centres. Often here big rigs take up every inch of their side of the road because the roads are much narrower than the US. Our camper is just over 7ft wide, and I can tell you, with a closing speed of 100mph those 44-ton big rig gets extremely close (a few inches) - you need to be very accurate with your steering. Plus often there are trees or telegraph poles right to the edge of the road, so steer away too much and you could hit something very solid. Remember, many of the roads were originally built from Roman times to Middle-ages and although very well surfaced now, are constrained by property boundaries either side which will have been there since the average speed of traffic was walking pace. A sensibly sized vehicle will make you more confident to go places and reduce the stress of your journey.

A lot of smaller class Cs are used here in Europe. Note however they are not the 8ft wide models you see in the US. They are based on Transit / Sprinter sized vans with a camper body that is only a few inches wider than the vehicle. They are also not much longer than 20ft.

I recommend trying to get a used European class C. There are plenty about, unlike truck campers which are rare in comparison. Also, you will be hunting around if you want to find places to drive that a 2WD camper cannot go in Europe.

I saw mention of the big Swiss and German overland rigs. Over the years I think I have met one of those on the road in Europe - he was testing it out before shipping it to South America. Campground operators may not appreciate heavy vehicles and may turn you away not wanting deep ruts pressed into their grass campsites.

Class C campers have modern European turbo-diesel engines. This is important since 1) diesel is MUCH more expensive here and 2) vehicles that do not comply with modern Euro emission standards are banned from many places.

As Joerg says, gross weight is another major consideration. All class Cs these days are within 3500kg gross. Anything over that requires a different driving license and has different rules for taxation, road tolls, access to certain roads, etc.

A few years ago I wanted to start building a replacement overland camper. I decided a Mercedes 814DA 4x4 heavy van would be perfect. Mercedes are everywhere on the planet, was based on a commercial truck frame with truck axles, engine and transmission. 4400kg payload; 7500kg gross. Then I noticed that 1) Europe is full of 3,5T signs stating that anything over 3500kg gross is banned from this road or that road. 2) over 3500kg may be considered a commercial vehicle. When we drove through Austria we had to buy a sticker to pay the road tolls, but some research indicated a >3500kg vehicle would have required us to rent an e-toll system which would debit us something like €1 per kilometer 3) It would not be emissions compliant and seemingly every month I get an email alerting me to another city or region that is banning vehicles that are pre-Euro 4 emission control. (PS - if you buy, make sure the engine is Euro-4 at least - which is pretty much 2007 onwards. Euro-4 is still acceptable throughout Europe, but I know I will need to replace my Euro-4 truck in a few years time to continue travelling unhindered).

Have a great trip

Steve.

Good advices! I live in Italy and I have a RV. In Austria and Switzerland lot of controls about over 3500. Not the same in Italy, France, Spain and Portugal ...

SidecarFlip wrote:
I think I'd be playing the lotto real heavy and hoping to win so I could buy something there, tour and sell it there...

I have a good friend in Mannheim Germany and I can tell you from the pictures I get from him, your dually won't work. It's too wide.

You need a SRW with a pop up camper like a 4 Wheel or an Alaskan. A HS on a dually is asking for grief.

Drove with my Sister and late wife around the Midlands and Wales in the UK in a Peugeot 308. Back " roads" we're at times like driving up a very narrow laneway, blind spots galore

I think I'd be playing the lotto real heavy and hoping to win so I could buy something there, tour and sell it there...

I have a good friend in Mannheim Germany and I can tell you from the pictures I get from him, your dually won't work. It's too wide.

You need a SRW with a pop up camper like a 4 Wheel or an Alaskan. A HS on a dually is asking for grief.

GordonThree wrote:
There's tons of video on Youtube of Germans (mostly) driving HUGE multimillion-euro Unimog and Mann expedition vehicles all over Europe and Africa. Are these trucks smaller than a powerstroke dualie?

Sounds like a really cool adventure!

A gross exaggeration. My Unimog U500/Unicat camper cost about 350K euro - everything brand new including chassis.

Charlie

Steve,

Thanks so much for your help. The example motorhome you identified is exactly what I'm after, in the 6.7 meter (20-22') range. The emissions info is great; thanks.

I follow you on the chassis. Most likely get a Fiat Ducato, but I'm ok with Ford's Transit. Since I'm buying a 2008-2012, I'm thinking the Fiat is most serviceable, in case a clutch or something. These Fiats seem to capture the builk of the market and have been around forever, so anybody can work on this I'm thinking.

I'd love to have a Mercedes Sprinter basis, but that's out of my budget.

It's looking like I'll buy in Holland with a sale/ buy back vendor. I'd love to purchase in the UK, but finding a left hand drive in the UK my restrict my choices too much.

At this point, I'm planning a couple years in Europe, perhaps visiting the UK (Summer) and Morocco (Winter) to meet Schengen rules, or maybe wandering into Eastern Europe, as long as my insurance company doesnt' get heart burn. I really don't have a legitimate story that would support a 6 month visa, so I'll have to play the ridiculous game to avoid overstaying my visa. Oh well.

Take care.

John

Hi,

I don't have enough experience using European RVs to tell you which brand to buy, but I have a suspicion that any German brands are likely to be a good bet. Note that the brands you mention are the brands of the converter / coach-builder rather than that of the underlying chassis-cab and I guess both need to be considered, although I suspect a high quality converter won't build on a chassis of suspect reliability.

Try joining a UK motorhome forum, e.g. motorhomefacts.com or motorhomefun.co.uk. (you will get further searching for "motorhome" rather than "class-C" or "RV" in British sites at least) The members are likely to know which brands are best.

To give some ideas of the RVs available here is a useful British site:

UK Autotrader site

It will probably ask you to enter a post code (zip) to search. Here is one near me you can enter: HP12 4ND

This is the type of vehicle to consider:

2012 motorhome

This type of mini-class-C configuration are probably the easiest to find here in Europe compared to a mini-class-A, and are more manoeuvrable because they are a bit narrower.

The various manufacturers often supply these on Peugeot / Citroen (French made) chassis-cabs, or FIAT (Italian). Some may be Mercedes or Ford Transit, but I see fewer of those these days. They all tend to be around 130 BHP turbo diesels (you won't find gasoline RVs), but that is plenty of power since they are light and their modern variable-geometry turbos develop sufficient torque from low revs.

Remember to check the vehicles you are looking at are at least Euro-4 to cope with modern low-emission-zones in Europe. I imagine that RVs that are pre-Euro-4 are now worth less because they are more restricted on where they can travel. I don't know when governments will change their low-emission-zones to require Euro-5, but if buying an RV now I guess I would consider Euro-5 to avoid a loss on resale value.

I suspect you would want to buy in Europe so you get a left hand drive vehicle though, so you will want to find an equivalent RV site in Europe to compare prices (try Mobile.de).

There may be different rules for purchasing, licensing and insuring vehicles in different countries, so you might want to do some research to find out where the easiest country to buy will be.

The configuration you mention with a fixed rear bed over a garage is now quite common - many are designed for older couples so don't have an overcab bed making them slightly lower profile.

European RVs come with cassette toilets - this is a good thing because there are fewer dump stations where you can easily drive a vehicle up and dump a black tank, Certainly in Britain, so being able to carry the cassette to a bathroom to empty it is a big bonus.

Steve.