Another question on winter traction

There are just too many people that think "it" will never happen to them, that they are the exception, that the laws of physics don't apply to them. I don't call it an accident, I call it stupid!

Glad you took the time to do the right thing.

Too many people think the extra traction of 4x4 means they can drive as if it were dry pavement. Too much speed.

4x4 in most old Cherokees locked front and rear axles so they have to turn at the same speeds. Any difference in tire diameters from wear or pressure, one or more wheels will be slipping or trying to slip, to make up the difference. This is fine for loose surfaces, low speeds off road, what these 4x4 systems were designed to handle. It means maybe a little less control, one or more wheels a little loose, on slick surfaces. Again, better for getting traction at low speeds, than for cotrol in high speed driving.

More sophisticated 4x4, and AWD systems, have slippage in the transfer case, or a diiferential or torque splitter istead of a transfer case. Most now have stability assist systems, either managing torque, adjusting traction with throttle control and individual wheel braking. These are for slick road driving, standard or optional on most modern SUVs. But it still doesn't mean you can drive any speed you want on an icy road.

DutchmenSport wrote:
There are just too many people that think "it" will never happen to them, that they are the exception, that the laws of physics don't apply to them. I don't call it an accident, I call it stupid!

Glad you took the time to do the right thing.

X2

4X4 can't fix stupid!

Locking front differentials were never OEM equipment for the very reason stated loss of steering control. People with extensive 4x4 driving experience generally are not the culprits of stupidity but with the availability of these vehicles and the abundance of them there is a large number of misinformed plus inexperienced operators. Winter driving starts with reading road conditions and most people nowadays are too distracted with anything but their driving.

He was driving way too fast for conditions. Had he gone up the hill with the flow of traffic, he would not have spun out.

After living at Lake Tahoe for several winters I learned a good rule for snow driving. Decide what you think is a safe speed then cut it in half.

Glad the driver wasn't sitting there bleeding to death . . . but does sound like overconfidence born of inexperience.

Many, many years ago, we lived at the foot of a bridge across a river at the bottom of a small valley. One morning it had been below freezing just long enough that the bridge (but not the road leading to it) was covered in a sheet of ice. We were awakened by somebody pounding on our door; they'd slid across the bridge and into the ditch, and needed assistance.

Went down to see what I could do, and watched helplessly as another car slid across the bridge and into the ditch on top of the first car.

Now this bridge was a long one, at least 1/4 mile. Before it warmed up, we took to serving hot coffee to the victims as car after car slid off the end of the bridge. Nobody was hurt, thank goodness, but the damages had to have been in the hundreds of thousands of dollars.

I recall seeing one guy in particular fly down the hill, hit the bridge just as he noticed the carnage, and he jumped on the brakes with both feet, locked up all four, and pirouetted the entire length of the bridge, bashing one fender after another on the guard rails. Went in slow motion the entire length, and slid off the end onto the pile with everyone else. I'm sure his car was totaled by the insurance company.

Now mind you, only about half the people who crossed the bridge crashed. The half who made it intact did the smart thing, got off both the go and stop pedals, made no sudden moves, and just coasted across, and were fine.

same thing happened on the way to Yuma last year. Boise Id had a ice storm and we were heading south and a chevy burb came up behind us and did a 360 and went right between to semi's going backwards. the passenger's eyes were as big as my hub caps.

buddyIam wrote:
Some have said it may have been the result of to much speed and a 4x4 without a locking front differential combined with patchy ice on the road. Their explanation is that one wheel began spinning at double speed while on ice. Then hit bare pavement. This makes sense also.

It is pretty much impossible to drive with a locked front differential. A differential allows the outside tire to spin faster in a turn than the inside tire because the outside tire covers more distance. Locked differentials, front or rear, almost always produce wheel slippage around corners in slippery road conditions because of the lack of differential action. Once a tire has broken loose traction and control goes down hill rapidly from there.

I have a 76 International Scout with ARB selectable locking front and rear differentials. With the rear differential locked steering is a bit more difficult depending on the terrain. With the front differential locked, depending on the terrain, I can have the tires at full steer and be plowing straight ahead. You almost never want to have your front differential locked. You have to have gotten yourself in really deep doodoo to need your front differential locked. Of course there isn't much that is more fun than finding that really deep doodoo with a couple of buddies... where you are grateful that you have the option of locking your front differential.

Your post reminded me of this which happened back in 07'
Portland, OR