Anti-Sway Bars with 30+ ft. TT and 1-ton Truck

For what's it worth, Gen-Y makes a great hitch with sway control or both weight distribution and sway control. I currently run with just sway control without weight distribution. My camper dry is 7200lbs and normally runs on average (depending on where we go and length of stay) around 8000lbs. I use a Sherline trailer tongue weight scale and keep it within 10-15% and have absolutely no problems at all while towing. With around 830lbs of tongue weight my truck drops exactly one inch in the rear. If I ever went with a heavier trailer I might consider the weight distribution set-up but right now I am very comfortable not using it.

IdaD wrote:

Lantley wrote:
The idea that you need to somehow balance the weight between the axles is a farce. You really want to maintain your original FA weight. You are not trying to equalize the weights between the axles.
A 5th wheel trailer is designed to place all the weight on the rear axle and little to no additional weight on the front axle.
A bumper pull wants to achieve a similar balance. The idea to to maintain the front axle weight.
A bumper pull trailer is attached to the truck behind the rear axle vs. above the rear axle on a 5'er.
The purpose of WDH is to keep the initial weight on the front axle. It is not to balance the weight between the axles.:h
Even a 1 ton SRW pick will benefit from a WDH. There is no way to attach 1500# 3' behind the rear axle and not remove weight from the front axle.:@ A trip to the CAT scales will easily prove this point.
With no weight distribution involved. The FA will weigh hundreds of lbs. less with the trailer attached vs. without the trailer.
Apply a WDH and you can restore the weight to the front axle.
The truck will always handle/steer better with the front axle at it original weight vs. being lighter than when it left the factory.
There is really no debate

His front axle with the trailer attached is still significantly heavier than a gas version of his truck with no trailer or with a trailer plus WDH. I could see wanting to add sway control but I just don't understand why a WDH would be necessary in OP's scenario.

A gas truck is designed to operate with steering and suspension parts based on the weight of the engine and the overall curb weight of the truck.
The idea that if its a good enough balance for a gasser it must be good enough for a diesel does not apply.
Each vehicle must be taken on it own merits. You don't get to ,mix and match parameters.
If a 9K curb unloaded truck has a 4K front axle weight. It does not make it OK to have a 3500# front axle weight with a bumper pull trailer
based on the fact that a gasser may also have a 3500# unloaded axle weight. The gasser is also lighter with a (different) 8k curb weight.
Again you must take each vehicle on its own merits

otrfun wrote:

Lantley wrote:
The idea that you need to somehow balance the weight between the axles is a farce. You really want to maintain your original FA weight. You are not trying to equalize the weights between the axles.
A 5th wheel trailer is designed to place all the weight on the rear axle and little to no additional weight on the front axle.
A bumper pull wants to achieve a similar balance. The idea to to maintain the front axle weight.
A bumper pull trailer is attached to the truck behind the rear axle vs. above the rear axle on a 5'er.
The purpose of WDH is to keep the initial weight on the front axle. It is not to balance the weight between the axles.:h
Even a 1 ton SRW pick will benefit from a WDH. There is no way to attach 1500# 3' behind the rear axle and not remove weight from the front axle.:@ A trip to the CAT scales will easily prove this point.
With no weight distribution involved. The FA will weigh hundreds of lbs. less with the trailer attached vs. without the trailer.
Apply a WDH and you can restore the weight to the front axle.
The truck will always handle/steer better with the front axle at it original weight vs. being lighter than when it left the factory.
There is really no debate

To focus exclusively on maintaining front axle weight with no regard to rear axle weight makes absolutely no sense and is certainly open to debate, sorry. Do you have any objective, technical data to back up your claim that striving for a balanced front/rear weight distribution (balanced/proportional in terms of axle ratings) is harmful from a handling or safety perspective?

You are aware that front axle weight is lost (transferred to the rear axle) when a 5th wheel is hitched up---just like it is when a bumper-pull is hitched up, right? I don't see engineers in a panic to get that weight back on the front axle on a 5th wheel. I believe this fact alone makes your claim about keeping front axle weight static at all costs through use of a WDH, baseless.

Again, there are applications where a WDH is effective and there are applications where they are not. To say a WDH is always effective, regardless of application, is, well, nonsensical.

There is no weight transferred to the front axle in a 5th wheel combo. The idea is to carry the weight on the rear axle.
Transferring fiver weight to the front axle can easily overload the front axle. The center of the 5th wheel hitch is placed over or slightly behind the front axle to eliminate/minimize any weight transfer to the front axle.
You are missing the entire point . Engineers are not in a panic to restore weight to the front axle in a 5th wheel set up because the weight was never removed from the front axle.
The weight is place over/on the axle not 3' behind the axle as with a bumper pull. The 5'er does not create any leverage on the front axle as it does with a bumper pull.

Lantley wrote:
The idea that you need to somehow balance the weight between the axles is a farce. You really want to maintain your original FA weight. You are not trying to equalize the weights between the axles.
A 5th wheel trailer is designed to place all the weight on the rear axle and little to no additional weight on the front axle.
A bumper pull wants to achieve a similar balance. The idea to to maintain the front axle weight.
A bumper pull trailer is attached to the truck behind the rear axle vs. above the rear axle on a 5'er.
The purpose of WDH is to keep the initial weight on the front axle. It is not to balance the weight between the axles.:h
Even a 1 ton SRW pick will benefit from a WDH. There is no way to attach 1500# 3' behind the rear axle and not remove weight from the front axle.:@ A trip to the CAT scales will easily prove this point.
With no weight distribution involved. The FA will weigh hundreds of lbs. less with the trailer attached vs. without the trailer.
Apply a WDH and you can restore the weight to the front axle.
The truck will always handle/steer better with the front axle at it original weight vs. being lighter than when it left the factory.
There is really no debate

His front axle with the trailer attached is still significantly heavier than a gas version of his truck with no trailer or with a trailer plus WDH. I could see wanting to add sway control but I just don't understand why a WDH would be necessary in OP's scenario.

TW is a static representation of a dynamic force. It isn’t constant. A WDH moves that force from one point, to three, the trailer now having less effect on the TV.

Even without integrated anti-sway this tends to lessen the trailers tendency to wander around on the ball. Because it is, constantly. Which increases the number of steering corrections per 100-miles (a big truck metric), and increases wear. With integrated antisway, the trailer is always “encouraged” to travel fewer miles than otherwise (compared to the TV).

It’s almost always easy to tell a TT on the ball, no WD. It’s the one sensitive to traffic-generated or natural winds.

Weight of the trailer isn’t the the problem. That’s almost a non-starter. It’s the ability of the TT to handle winds. A square edged box just doesn’t. Especially with the stupidly tall floor height of today’s, given slideouts. Adverse winds are what cause loss of control accidents.

A solid axle 4WD pickup is crippled at birth. No road feel. Terrible instability. Why worsen that situation by not using a decent hitch? I use a Hensley with my one ton. Does the TT need it? Not as much as the truck since the TT is better at staying upright. The truck is the weak link.

Tail wags the dog.


.

Lantley wrote:
The idea that you need to somehow balance the weight between the axles is a farce. You really want to maintain your original FA weight. You are not trying to equalize the weights between the axles.
A 5th wheel trailer is designed to place all the weight on the rear axle and little to no additional weight on the front axle.
A bumper pull wants to achieve a similar balance. The idea to to maintain the front axle weight.
A bumper pull trailer is attached to the truck behind the rear axle vs. above the rear axle on a 5'er.
The purpose of WDH is to keep the initial weight on the front axle. It is not to balance the weight between the axles.:h
Even a 1 ton SRW pick will benefit from a WDH. There is no way to attach 1500# 3' behind the rear axle and not remove weight from the front axle.:@ A trip to the CAT scales will easily prove this point.
With no weight distribution involved. The FA will weigh hundreds of lbs. less with the trailer attached vs. without the trailer.
Apply a WDH and you can restore the weight to the front axle.
The truck will always handle/steer better with the front axle at it original weight vs. being lighter than when it left the factory.
There is really no debate

To focus exclusively on maintaining front axle weight with no regard to rear axle weight makes absolutely no sense and is certainly open to debate, sorry. Do you have any objective, technical data to back up your claim that striving for a balanced front/rear weight distribution (balanced/proportional in terms of axle ratings) is harmful from a handling or safety perspective?

You are aware that front axle weight is lost (transferred to the rear axle) when a 5th wheel is hitched up---just like it is when a bumper-pull is hitched up, right? I don't see engineers in a panic to get that weight back on the front axle on a 5th wheel. I believe this fact alone makes your claim about keeping front axle weight static at all costs through use of a WDH, baseless.

Again, there are applications where a WDH is effective and there are applications where they are not. To say a WDH is always effective, regardless of application, is, well, nonsensical.

The idea that you need to somehow balance the weight between the axles is a farce. You really want to maintain your original FA weight. You are not trying to equalize the weights between the axles.
A 5th wheel trailer is designed to place all the weight on the rear axle and little to no additional weight on the front axle.
A bumper pull wants to achieve a similar balance. The idea to to maintain the front axle weight.
A bumper pull trailer is attached to the truck behind the rear axle vs. above the rear axle on a 5'er.
The purpose of WDH is to keep the initial weight on the front axle. It is not to balance the weight between the axles.:h
Even a 1 ton SRW pick will benefit from a WDH. There is no way to attach 1500# 3' behind the rear axle and not remove weight from the front axle.:@ A trip to the CAT scales will easily prove this point.
With no weight distribution involved. The FA will weigh hundreds of lbs. less with the trailer attached vs. without the trailer.
Apply a WDH and you can restore the weight to the front axle.
The truck will always handle/steer better with the front axle at it original weight vs. being lighter than when it left the factory.
There is really no debate

rsaylor3 wrote:
It's a Duramax and 4x4. I have put it on a cat scale and the sway pro puts me back at the same front weight as unloaded.

Honestly the safety is a big part of it for me, but also the ride. You can hook it up and leave them loose and tighten each link and drive. You will feel the difference in how the suspension works together and you get a smoother more controlled feel to the ride. Especially on rough interstates and roads. I like to be as smooth and comfortable as possible.

I run my tongue weight right at 13%, give or take depending on how much we packed for said trip

Good luck!

I understand that you feel your WDH gives you a "controlled feel to the ride" and that "safety is a big part of it for (you)".

However, what "feels" safe to you, ultimately, may not be. A typical sports car with a bumpy, jerky ride will typically out-handle and out-brake a softer sprung, less compliant, smooth riding luxury car. Is a car with a bumpy, jerky ride, that out-handles and out-brakes another car safer? I think most would say yes.

Seems reasonable that your front axle weight goes back to its unloaded value with the WDH as you stated. As you know, that's what a properly operating WDH is designed to do---redistribute weight. However, the front axle weight is only half the equation. Proportionally, what is your rear axle weight vs. your front axle weight? IMO, this value ultimately determines how "safe" you are in objective terms.

It's a Duramax and 4x4. I have put it on a cat scale and the sway pro puts me back at the same front weight as unloaded.

Honestly the safety is a big part of it for me, but also the ride. You can hook it up and leave them loose and tighten each link and drive. You will feel the difference in how the suspension works together and you get a smoother more controlled feel to the ride. Especially on rough interstates and roads. I like to be as smooth and comfortable as possible.

I run my tongue weight right at 13%, give or take depending on how much we packed for said trip

Good luck!

rsaylor3 wrote:
My trailer is a 32 ft box and 36ft hitch to bumper. I tow with a 2015 Silverado 2500. I use a Blue Ox Sway Pro with 1,500 lb bars.

I honestly would not tow without it. to me it's like seatbelts and everything else. If I have a way to be safer in what I am doing, why would I not? and how would I feel if I had to say I should have after something goes wrong.

takes maybe 5 minutes extra to hook up at most, and it provides for a very stable platform when towing. I have towed a short distance at lower speeds to storage and the difference in feel is night a day.

For the long haul, you will be happy just in the ride quality alone for having it on there.


Good luck and enjoy your new trailer!

Is your 2500 diesel? Have you CAT scaled your front and rear axle weight with your WDH fully tensioned? I'd be curious to see what these numbers are. It's very possible with a 2500 gasser (with less weight on the front axle) you may actually get better weight distribution with a WDH.

My 3500 Ram diesel SRW with with 1200-1400 lbs. of tongue weight (TT empty to loaded) and no WDH has approx. 4600-4700 lbs. on the front axle and approx. 4400-4500 lbs. on the rear axle. That's close to an ideal 50/50 weight distribution. If I used a WDH it would put even more weight on the front axle and less on the rear---in my case, exactly the opposite of what I need.

IMO, if one wants to truly be safe, one will confirm proper weight distribution (i.e., axle weights) with a CAT scale ticket. These are the type of numbers will hold up in a court of law in the event "something goes wrong". My numbers are good. Are yours?