E&JPNW wrote: "Now place a 25' to 35' trailer with all of its weight and the lever it has between the center line of the axle assembly and the tongue coupler. I wish I knew how to place illistrations on here, I will try to paint a word picture. Picture an arrow pointing at the pivot point in a lateral fashon at both a 5th wheel hitch and a conventional hitch. This of course is latter force. Sure 5th wheel hitches have lateral force exerted against them. The difference is that because of its placement over the center line of the rear axle (or slightly forward of it) you lose the lever effect that a conventional hitch would exert against the TV because of its distance from the center line of the rear axle."
Answer:
I believe you are thinking in only one plane. The ball hitch is either equal to or BELOW the frame of the truck. this position is much more difficult to move the truck on a lateral plane than the 5th wheel.
The 5th wheel is much higher ABOVE the frame with most of the trailer weight still above that to act as a lever against the 5th wheel and the frame. This equals a longer lever arm = more force. Thus you need that big plate of the 5th wheel to react out those forces down thru the frame.
But this has little to do with TRAILER sway. What you are talking about would be the trailer swaying the TV. If the TV is doing its job and the rig is set up correctly that's not going to happen (except in extreme cases of out of control stops or similar)
Answer this simple physics question for me:
Tell me what two principals of Physics are represented by the HAND CART? (the two wheeled upright kind)
I don't ask this to embarrass you but to understand and hopefully show you that the physics you believe are reacting on the TV just aren't correct.
Think about this by looking at the design of most of these sway bar systems, they simply react out the forces of the trailer's side to side motion by exerting a countervailing force against the tongue. NOT THE TV. If your hypothesis were correct all that bar and chain mechanism that works against the trailer would be aimed FORWARD.
E&J: "I'm not saying that there arent lateral forces on a fifth wheel hitch, I'm saying there isn't leverage in the same manner as a conventional hitch."
Answer: leverage is leverage it changes with the length of the lever. Not with the hitch type. If anything the 5th wheel is able to exert MORE leverage than the ball type.
5th wheels are placed over the axles PRIMARILY for WEIGHT reasons. This takes advantage of the Carrying capacity of the P/u. There MAY be some advantages of stability (but not if the trailer is loaded wrong) but the reason 5th wheel travel trailers were designed in the first place was to provide a much bigger trailer (with a much higher tongue weight) to meet consumer demand for more space and amenities...it was not to reduce sway.
My conclusions from looking closely at these hitches and thinking deeply about the problem:
The VAST MAJORITY of sway problems are driver induced or improperly loaded trailers (same thing really)
Sway bars were a response to a lucrative market niche of the above that wanted to have a mechanism that damps out their inputs.
While this product may have it's benefits under certain road conditions and driving conditions (driver input) They are NOT NECESSARY to haul a trailer safely.
Dont expect Trailer Life or its editors to ever print a fair article on this subject as there is just too much money at stake. TL is owned by Good Sam Ent. and so is Camping World. A great deal of income is derived from the Advertising and sales of these hitches by the GS Enterprises companies.
Unless and until an independent third party similar to consumer reports does some real scientific testing on these products and draws a conclusion one way or the other I will remain a healthy skeptic.
To all of those that use them and believe in them this is certainly your prerogative. But I think you should exercise some care in claiming that they are a SAFETY device. I don't believe that has ever been proven...
And while your stories of roll-overs and radically swaying trailers are compelling they remain only ANECDOTAL evidence...without real investigation, rather than a lot of assumptions of what really happened.
But one of the most telling things for me is this. The people who owned my trailer before me used one of these hitches and it came with the trailer. I have never bothered to assemble it or use it and I have absolutely no sway problem with driving this trailer. In fact my first trip with this trailer was Chicago to Minot ND (over 1000 miles) during one of the worst wind and snow storms of the season...and NO SWAY. Much of the time roads were snow and ice covered and the wind blew as much as 40 MPH and more...
edited by author for clarity
