Anybody towing with a late model gasser?

sacmarata wrote:

You eagerly mentioned HP numbers, now lets hear those torque numbers.

If you had a motor which made 10,000 ft-lbs of torque but only 100 HP, any modern V6 would be able to out-tow it on hills or flats. The only difference is the 10,000ft-lb motor would be turning at a much slower RPM. HP is what matters. Torque is only relevant because that affects the RPMs peak HP occurs at, and how "flat" that HP curve is (which keeps more HP available more often).

BTW - most of my work trucks have been diesel, including an '08 Ram 6.7L. On the same grade (7%), with more weight behind my V10, the V10 will hold a higher top speed on that grade compared to the 6.7L could. Main difference was 4800 RPM vs 3200 RPM. The V10 could can pull more weight than than a 6.7L cab-chassis simply because it makes more HP, even though the 6.7L makes more torque, had a lower final drive ratio, and deeper gears in the transmission. The 6.7L was faster with a load up to about 25 MPH, at which point the V10 has the HP advantage. In the 2-years I drove that truck, it never made me want to trade my gasser for a diesel. In fact it left a bad taste for new diesels due to the numerous problems it had. It did make me wish I had more gears behind my motor, so I'm hoping to address that this summer:)

Just "to keep the conversation going" you might note the following test:

16% hill climb test

The F250 gas 6.2 "beat" the Ram 2500 Diesel up the hill.

(It would be fun to see how the new Dodge 6.4 with the 8 speed transmission would do). Obviously gearing and transmissions play a big role in these kind of results.

There is no question that generally the diesels can pull more. However, the real question is how adequate are the gas engines. I think the answer is they are getting better and better. Only part of it is the engines themselves but another big part of it is the transmissions. Back in the days of 4 speed transmissions it was harder to keep the "peaky" gas engines in the "sweet" spot. Today's 6 and 8 speed transmissions really make a difference for the gas engines.

If I had a decision to make that was "boderline" as to what I needed-a gas or diesel truck, I'd go with gas. A $10,000.00 repair (no matter how rare) would be devastating.

As far as warranty coverage on "water in the fuel" it seems that both Chrysler and Ford (not sure about GM) pretty much deny these warranty claims routinely.

I guess there are aftermarket filter systems that lessen the chance of a fuel contaminated failure.

I would venture to say with the continuing escalation of all fuel prices, and diesel being the most expensive (MOST OF THE TIME) and the mpg advantage disappearing with each new generation of trucks, and the costs of new rigs that diesels will continue to fall out of favor, as has been expressed by those who own diesels on this board and saying their next truck will be a big V8 gasser.

So diesels will be purchased by only those who are towing really heavy and need the torque.

jerem0621 wrote:

sacmarata wrote:

Dave H M wrote:
How many of you accept adequate with your camping gear or get by on just good enough. Thats what yer doin with a gasser pulling over 8,000lbs. It will NOT pull as good as a diesel. It WILL NOT last as long. It will have premature wear. It WONT be worth as much with 150K miles.

My 1994 Cummins 12 valve has 324k carefree miles and will out pull any gasser off the assembly line in 3/4 or 1 ton.

If anyone thinks 45mph on the interstate is safe they are jaded.


I have seen some absurd things on this forum, but this one ranks way up there. Anyone that states that old doge will out snort any gasser off the now a days assy line is not in touch with reality - that is unless he has a modern motor in the dodge.

I tow 11.5K with one of those puny ford 6.2 gassers. I run 65 on the interstate. On the long grade going north on I 26 In NC you will catch me grinding up that one at 50 mph.

FAR OUT

I'll race you up any hill anywhere with (you choose the weight)lbs with my 20yr old 324K mile Cummins with $100 worth of mods...WIN and get better fuel mileage to boot. All this with tall final drive and larger (285) tires

It's not bragging, it's just the facts.

A 6.2 gasser winning a tow contest VS a very lightly modded 12 valve Cummins is simply fantasy.

I just don't understand the gasser mentality. Exceptions become the norm and barely good enough is suddenly practical. Diesels are not evil. They don't all break down. $10,000 repair bills are practically unheard of yet get thrown out there. I don't get it.

Like I said. I have a modified 6.0 Chevy built for towing and it CAN'T HOLD A CANDLE to by '94 Cummins. Were not talking close here...I mean it simply is in a whole other league!

My buddy has a 2009 5.7 Hemi and it's laughable at towing anything over 7klbs.

Allow those that own both diesels and gas to chime in and give their own experiences as example.

My dads 03 Cummins pulls Monteagle mtn on I24 at 45-50 mph with the pedal to the floor. His truck is immaculate and there is no problem. Just a heavy load.

FYI.... Modern gassers are going hundreds of thousands of miles under load nowadays. Diesels.. Well I'm not seeing near the number of untouched common rail diesels as the older ones now.

Your arguments worked great for the early 90's to the early 00's. Today, that argument is invalid. Especially considering the modern gasser has 370-400 plus HP. Sorry in a race, all things being equal the 400 hp modern gasser with a 5 or 6 speed tranny would SMOKE your 300 hp Diesel.

That's not emotion talking. That's physics.

Thanks!

You eagerly mentioned HP numbers, now lets hear those torque numbers.
Not to mention that total cost of ownership across the board with most all makes of diesel is lower. In some cases significantly lower. So, to those who cling to the exceptions of $10,000 repair bills, read this: http://www.dieselforum.org/files/dmfile/20130311_CD_UMTRITCOFinalReport_dd2017.pdf

My father pulls his 7klb TT over Monteagle and was just expressing the joys of his 2003 Cummins common rail to me yesterday and telling me of the gassers that he passed on his way up. In fact, I use it often as well; completely unmodified other than guages and it's a BEAST! I can't imagine what it would be like chipped with a triple disk TC in it :)

sacmarata wrote:

Dave H M wrote:
How many of you accept adequate with your camping gear or get by on just good enough. Thats what yer doin with a gasser pulling over 8,000lbs. It will NOT pull as good as a diesel. It WILL NOT last as long. It will have premature wear. It WONT be worth as much with 150K miles.

My 1994 Cummins 12 valve has 324k carefree miles and will out pull any gasser off the assembly line in 3/4 or 1 ton.

If anyone thinks 45mph on the interstate is safe they are jaded.


I have seen some absurd things on this forum, but this one ranks way up there. Anyone that states that old doge will out snort any gasser off the now a days assy line is not in touch with reality - that is unless he has a modern motor in the dodge.

I tow 11.5K with one of those puny ford 6.2 gassers. I run 65 on the interstate. On the long grade going north on I 26 In NC you will catch me grinding up that one at 50 mph.

FAR OUT

I'll race you up any hill anywhere with (you choose the weight)lbs with my 20yr old 324K mile Cummins with $100 worth of mods...WIN and get better fuel mileage to boot. All this with tall final drive and larger (285) tires

It's not bragging, it's just the facts.

A 6.2 gasser winning a tow contest VS a very lightly modded 12 valve Cummins is simply fantasy.

I just don't understand the gasser mentality. Exceptions become the norm and barely good enough is suddenly practical. Diesels are not evil. They don't all break down. $10,000 repair bills are practically unheard of yet get thrown out there. I don't get it.

Like I said. I have a modified 6.0 Chevy built for towing and it CAN'T HOLD A CANDLE to by '94 Cummins. Were not talking close here...I mean it simply is in a whole other league!

My buddy has a 2009 5.7 Hemi and it's laughable at towing anything over 7klbs.

Allow those that own both diesels and gas to chime in and give their own experiences as example.

My dads 03 Cummins pulls Monteagle mtn on I24 at 45-50 mph with the pedal to the floor. His truck is immaculate and there is no problem. Just a heavy load.

FYI.... Modern gassers are going hundreds of thousands of miles under load nowadays. Diesels.. Well I'm not seeing near the number of untouched common rail diesels as the older ones now.

Your arguments worked great for the early 90's to the early 00's. Today, that argument is invalid. Especially considering the modern gasser has 370-400 plus HP. Sorry in a race, all things being equal the 400 hp modern gasser with a 5 or 6 speed tranny would SMOKE your 300 hp Diesel.

That's not emotion talking. That's physics.

Thanks!

Dave H M wrote:
How many of you accept adequate with your camping gear or get by on just good enough. Thats what yer doin with a gasser pulling over 8,000lbs. It will NOT pull as good as a diesel. It WILL NOT last as long. It will have premature wear. It WONT be worth as much with 150K miles.

My 1994 Cummins 12 valve has 324k carefree miles and will out pull any gasser off the assembly line in 3/4 or 1 ton.

If anyone thinks 45mph on the interstate is safe they are jaded.


I have seen some absurd things on this forum, but this one ranks way up there. Anyone that states that old doge will out snort any gasser off the now a days assy line is not in touch with reality - that is unless he has a modern motor in the dodge.

I tow 11.5K with one of those puny ford 6.2 gassers. I run 65 on the interstate. On the long grade going north on I 26 In NC you will catch me grinding up that one at 50 mph.

FAR OUT

I'll race you up any hill anywhere with (you choose the weight)lbs with my 20yr old 324K mile Cummins with $100 worth of mods...WIN and get better fuel mileage to boot. All this with tall final drive and larger (285) tires

It's not bragging, it's just the facts.

A 6.2 gasser winning a tow contest VS a very lightly modded 12 valve Cummins is simply fantasy.

I just don't understand the gasser mentality. Exceptions become the norm and barely good enough is suddenly practical. Diesels are not evil. They don't all break down. $10,000 repair bills are practically unheard of yet get thrown out there. I don't get it.

Like I said. I have a modified 6.0 Chevy built for towing and it CAN'T HOLD A CANDLE to by '94 Cummins. Were not talking close here...I mean it simply is in a whole other league!

My buddy has a 2009 5.7 Hemi and it's laughable at towing anything over 7klbs.

Allow those that own both diesels and gas to chime in and give their own experiences as example.

Turtle n Peeps wrote:

sacmarata wrote:

The Texan wrote:
Sure, the GM 6.0 in both ¾t and 1t plus the Ford 6.2 in the Super Duty. They will handle the weight and you will be satisfied with the ride as well.

I have a '94 12 valve Cummins and a 2002 6.0 Chevy. The Cummins = no prob with just about anything I put behind it...period.

The Chevy, though equiped with the Tow package and tow haul = barely get out of it's own way with my 8,500lb TT.

45mph on gentle Interstate hills of Kentucky is not acceptable and dangerous! The 6.0 has cold air intake and high flow exhaust as well, so I'm getting a few more useable ponies than stock. I know how to haul heavy and keep the TC in lockup as much as possible as well. It's not like I just don't know what I'm doing.

I can't imagine hauling anything heavier. Just because something "WILL" haul something, doesn't mean it should.

I love the chevy, but gassers simply werent meant to haul in this weight class.

Either that Cummins is turned up or you believe in fair tails. Which is it?

That 94 Cummins came from the factory with a blazing 175 HP. A new V6 gasoline engine would kill that thing in a towing race.

The Cummins has less than $100 worth of mods and pushes over 300hp. In fact, I have a #10 fuel plate but I could have just tossed the old one. I put 3K gov springs on it but didn't have to do that either, so FOR FREE I can get 300+hp out of the Cummins just by bumping the timing and tossing fuel plate.

I wouldn't say that's a very radical modification...and you can't argue with 324K carefree miles.

If someone wants to spend $60K on a new Diesel, have at it.

CKNSLS wrote:

sacmarata wrote:
Comparing a gas truck to diesel is apples to orangutans.
Sure theres those that say "my gasser pulls my 8,000lb trailer just fine."
In my experience those are the ones afraid to own a diesel because of the undo stigma put on diesels from common problems of the old technogy Fords and Chevys.
Almost any gas truck will pull 8,000 lbs. Heck I used to pull an old 23' trihull beast of a boat with my Nissan 4 cylinder. Yes...it pulled it just fine...until I learned what just fine really meant that is. I upgraded to a 4.0 Ranger. WHOA boy. I could almost keep up with fraffic on the flats. This was livin!
Well, a few years later I got the 12 valve and I immediatelyI felt stupid telling everyone my Ranger was the bees knees all those years. It wasn't! It pulled the thing, sure! But did it keep up with traffic? No! Did I go through a clutch prematurely yes!
I know comparing a Ranger to a modern v8 gasser isnt the same but the illustration wasnt to compare the two but to show how one can talk themselves into believing something is "just fine" when it's not.

How many of you accept adequate with your camping gear or get by on just good enough. Thats what yer doin with a gasser pulling over 8,000lbs. It will NOT pull as good as a diesel. It WILL NOT last as long. It will have premature wear. It WONT be worth as much with 150K miles.

My 1994 Cummins 12 valve has 324k carefree miles and will out pull any gasser off the assembly line in 3/4 or 1 ton.

If anyone thinks 45mph on the interstate is safe they are jaded.

AND A GASSER WILL NOT COST $10,000.00 TO FIX THE FUEL SYSTEM-OR THE MOTOR. And you better tell those trucks in the right hand lanes when they are pulling real heavy (at 45 or 50mph up a Grade) THEY ARE UNSAFE!


Nobody is saying a gasser will out pull a diesel. What they are saying is that diesels are expensive to repair-and if one thinks they are not they are jaded. Also, if the resale value is more...it would seem a $10,000.00 repair would take the extra "chunk" of resale value right out the proverbial window.

Are you paying 60grand for a new truck that requires DEF when you truck finally wears out?

You have taken the exception and made it the norm. It is common knowledge that diesels out last gassers. This is not up for debate.
As far as letting the slow trucks in the right lane know...I do. It's part of my job.

How many of you accept adequate with your camping gear or get by on just good enough. Thats what yer doin with a gasser pulling over 8,000lbs. It will NOT pull as good as a diesel. It WILL NOT last as long. It will have premature wear. It WONT be worth as much with 150K miles.

My 1994 Cummins 12 valve has 324k carefree miles and will out pull any gasser off the assembly line in 3/4 or 1 ton.

If anyone thinks 45mph on the interstate is safe they are jaded.


I have seen some absurd things on this forum, but this one ranks way up there. Anyone that states that old doge will out snort any gasser off the now a days assy line is not in touch with reality - that is unless he has a modern motor in the dodge.

I tow 11.5K with one of those puny ford 6.2 gassers. I run 65 on the interstate. On the long grade going north on I 26 In NC you will catch me grinding up that one at 50 mph.

FAR OUT

daily double wrote:
UPDATE: Insurance (USAA) denied the claim, I'm stuck with the repair bill.I just put 6 new tires, and Bilstein shocks all around , otherwise it would be sitting on a Dodge dealers used car lot!

Did you ever send a fuel sample to a lab?
A friend of mine runs 3 6.7s in his construction business and one did the same thing, Ford said fuel contamination so no warranty. Fuel sample came back with DEF in the fuel, insurance company paid the repairs. Employees got a lesson on what hole to put the DEF in.

Without a fuel sample proving contamination insurance companies will do nothing.

Denny