Anyone Install Lithium ion Batteries? Results?

We have 1.4 kW of solar, 9.8 kW hours (720 amp-hours at 12 V)of lithium iron batteries (160#) and 4 kW PSW inverter. Since lithium iron phosphate batteries can be drained to less than 10% capacity, this is very close to equivalent of 1200 or amp-hours (12 V) of lead sulphide batteries. 1200 amp-hours (12 V) of PbS would weigh approximately 1000# which would cause us to be overweight - and where we would put that many batteries. The result is that we have been autonomous since June when system was fabricated by son Cary (who has a 1.5 megawatt solar project ongoing for power company). We have operated 1.5 kW a/c for 3.5 hours as combination of solar and batteries. Batteries have permitted full use of forced air heater for three days with solar panels covered (still got 12 amps through the 8" or so of snow). We still had over 60% of battery storage remaining. The cost of solar and lithium iron phosphate batteries is decreasing and we expect that they will become more popular with time.
Reed and Elaine Cundiff

Lithium batteries are quickly coming of age for small battery backup power supplies in aircraft.

The Dreamliner batteries are lithium cobalt, not lithium iron. They may be state of the art for large batteries installed in commercial airliners, but they are not the same battery you buy for deep cycle use in your RV or boat. As far as I have seen these are lithium iron.

Most lithium batteries require a battery management system, this is necessary to prevent over charging, over discharging, and cell equalization. Most of the batteries being sold for replacement of lead acid in boats and RVs have this built into the case, and a fairly garden variety battery charger will work with them since the extra regulation required is built into the BMS. Smart Battery, Lithium Pros and others (even Sears!) are selling this sort of solution as a drop in replacement for lead acid. You connect the terminals to your existing system and you're done. You do not need a custom or special battery charger.

I'm not recommending them necessarily, they have a less proven track record, are expensive, may not live up to the claimed life, etc. But there is plenty of reason to believe that this is the future.

Lead acid batteries aren't completely fool proof or safe either: full of acid, spew explosive hydrogen gas, plenty of energy to start fires, etc. We have merely learned over time to mitigate and accept these risks.

The ones used in the Dreamliner reflect current state of the art in large capacity batteries. The comments about needing a custom battery charger still applies to safely charge the batteries in an RV.

Do you know where to buy the batteries in a deep cycle configuration in a group 31 size and where to buy a charger that will work and how to wire it into the RV easily or are you simply blowing smoke?

There are several "lithium ion" battery technologies, and they are not all created equal. LiFe are much less likely to suffer thermal runaway or short circuit fires. The ones in your camera, cell phone, laptop and Dreamliner are not the same chemistry, and are not comparable.

They are not safe as the lithium-ion batteries are all prone to thermal runaway and can catching fire and explode, which is why they are not allowed in checked airline luggage and why the new Boeing Dreamliner jets were grounded for months to fix problems with the plane's new bleeding edge lithium-ion batteries.

I use them in my cameras as there is no other choice. I use NiMh for all my other electronic devices as it is much cheaper. If I was going to buy a large lithium-ion battery it would be for a boat or a trailer where if it caught fire I would not destroy my truck or my house if the truck was in the garage.

All the lithium-ion batteries I have used required special chargers to avoid overheating and the chargers in an RV are not going to be engineered for this type of battery nor will automotive or solar chargers.

As a side note: a few organizations in the US were/are developing turn-key lithium systems for the RV industry (not the up-scale luxury yachting buyer, where costs can be ~$5000 for appx 300ah !). AM Solar was one lithium RV developer; the other is SmartBattery Lithium company.

SmartBattery lithium has a "drop-in" LiFePo4 Group 31 footprint replacement for our current AGMs (in our 100ah range) for $1300 each (comparing the price with our existing AGM batteries at $170 each + tax). The weight compare is: our current AGM weight = ~70LBS each : the LiFePo4 100ah weight per battery = (an incredible) 28LBS each. Charging is at 14.6V; charge time is an amazing 2 hours at 50 amps (investigate the mode of charging carefully). The expected lifetime for an RV user is in the 10x an AGM lifespan (that would be roughly 60 to 80 years of lifespan). Operating temperatures for this battery is: 4 below zero F to about 160F (this blows any ancient lead-acid or AGM environmental operating temperature out of the Universe).

Anyhow, as I said, we will probably go this route in 3 years (with this battery, with its built-in smart battery full automated protection: undervoltage preempt; overvoltage preempt; short circuit preempt; Reerse; ICB; and CB).

My disclaimer: do your due diligence; this is what we are contemplating, and don't endorse this route for anyone. Your mileage may/WILL vary.

Silver-

....I've been watching the lithium battery (all genres) development for some time now; however, due to price and issues with the odd fire, will wait the development out for another 2 or 3 years.

As a note: the current LiFePo4 appear to be a good alternative with a proven non incendiary history (but I understand that smoking one is not impossible or out of the question: careless maintenance; no charging BMS in circuit; etc).

Silver-

Man those things are pricy and I thought the $1000 my 4 Lifelines cost was expensive

The Lifeline press release is not exactly factual. Lead acid batteries can only be discharged to about 50% capacity if you want any cycle life out of them. In addition, it takes a long time to recover the last 20% of charge. So if you need 100 AH of capacity, you need at least a 200 AH bank, possibly more depending on recharge times. Lithium on the other hand, can be discharged to 20% with exceptional cycle life, and recharge much more quickly to 100%. So if you need 100 AH capacity you need only perhaps a 125 AH bank.

They are still a very new technology though, and not cheap, even considering cycle life and useable capacity.