Are You Buying All These Half-ton Claims?

"What nonsense and fear-mongering." And when an engineer builds in a safety factor that exceeds stated use limits, is that also being nonsensical?

And driving at half the posted speed (in good conditions) is usually more dangerous than driving at posted speeds. Apples and oranges. Focus!

How are we defining SAFE? Safe isn't necessarily reflected by amount of weight being towed, or manner in which it is towed. A lot of these arguments are using the fear of not being safe when in reality they are discussing maintenance issues.

I will provide the example again, since it hasn't been answered...

A Ford F150 rated to pull 10,000 lbs with a payload of around 2000 lbs is our theoretical vehicle with 800 lbs of gear and passengers.

Its pulling an 8000 lbs bumper pull, has 1000 lbs tongue weight (including WDH)and 800 lbs of gear. It is at 80% of its tow rating and 200 lbs under payload, has 12.5% tongue weight. This is considered "safe".

Now its pulling an 8000 5er. It has 1600 lbs of weight on the pin, plus 800 lbs of gear and passengers. Still at 80% of its tow rating, but now we are 400 lbs OVER our payload. This is "unsafe"...?

We are pulling the same weight, our GCVWR is the exact same.
The braking system has to satisfy those weights either way.
The 5er "pulls better" because the weight is better distributed and less prone to sway.

How is it less SAFE?

I know it is more likely to have frame problems or rear suspension problems from long term use. Those problems are going to result in damage to components eventually, likely costing more money for maintenance.

But how is it any less SAFE to overload your payload, but still carry the same weight? More likely to damage components and have to incur costs to repair... but safety? Now what if that F150 has air bags to support the additional weight... now the weaker springs are taken out of the equation. Now what if the F150 has D or E rated tires that are grossly overrated for its weights... that takes tires out of the question.

Short of braking all 5 lugs at the same time and losing a wheel, the rear axle itself snapping in half or the axle coming undone... what safety issues are there? We are 400 lbs over payload, but likely still under the manufacturers rating for that axle.

Where is the SAFETY issue?

That being said, I am not advocating towing over your GVWR... but I really question how it is a SAFETY issue. As far as I can tell, its a warranty and maintenance issue.

So I should always be well below my truck's payload. How far below? Monkey44 suggest that I stay around 1/2 the truck's payload.

My current truck has a payload of 2030# and I'm usually within a 100# or so of that.

So what I really need is a truck with 4000# payload.

Sorry folks, that'll never happen.

I know now that I'm risking the safety of my family and probably increasing the threat of nuclear war. But I'm quite happy staying within the manufacturer's specifications.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^

It just seems maxing out payload like the above is not a good idea.

I wouldn't put my family in that vehicle with those numbers.

But to each his own.....

majorgator wrote:

RinconVTR wrote:

To think you are safer than anyone else just because you're under OEM ratings makes you naïve and a bigger safety risk than others who understand there is much more to towing than weights and ratings.

I would argue that this is a very foolish statement. Sounds like the common ideology of the gun control group. How is someone choosing to use a larger, more capable TV a bigger safety risk?

A bigger safety risk in regards to "burying YOUR head in the sand" and generalized thinking that simply buying a bigger truck makes you more safe because now your using less of available payload and tow ratings. This is naïve thinking to the extreme.

I watched a newer F-150 truck loose an empty 3 or 4 place aluminum trailer on the opposite side of the Interstate this summer. (the only trailer accident I ever witnessed). Had it crossed over vs veering away, it was timed perfectly to collide with us. Traffic was heavy at the time, imagine what could have happen.

SO....following your line of thinking... if that driver had a F-250 or F-350, this never would have happened. His 1/2 ton truck was obviously too small to tow that empty ATV trailer, and that's why he forgot to couple the ball and likely forgot to hook up the chains too.

brulaz wrote:

So I am risking the safety of my family by loading my truck up close to it's GVWR of 7500. But not if I load it to 6500# (half the payload).

Do you also travel at half the speed limit?

What nonsense and fear-mongering.

I completely agree.

spoon059 wrote:
How are we defining SAFE? Safe isn't necessarily reflected by amount of weight being towed, or manner in which it is towed. A lot of these arguments are using the fear of not being safe when in reality they are discussing maintenance issues.

I will provide the example again, since it hasn't been answered...

A Ford F150 rated to pull 10,000 lbs with a payload of around 2000 lbs is our theoretical vehicle with 800 lbs of gear and passengers.

Its pulling an 8000 lbs bumper pull, has 1000 lbs tongue weight (including WDH)and 800 lbs of gear. It is at 80% of its tow rating and 200 lbs under payload, has 12.5% tongue weight. This is considered "safe".

Now its pulling an 8000 5er. It has 1600 lbs of weight on the pin, plus 800 lbs of gear and passengers. Still at 80% of its tow rating, but now we are 400 lbs OVER our payload. This is "unsafe"...?

............

CKNSLS wrote:
^^^^^^^^^^^^^

It just seems maxing out payload like the above is not a good idea.

I wouldn't put my family in that vehicle with those numbers.

But to each his own.....

Sorry, I would go with the 5er 400# OVER payload! IF one is not exceeding the tire ratings. The 5er is inherently more stable, as long as you have not exceeded the axle rating (by too much), and are within the tire ratings.

The real issues with the safety of the package is the abilities of the driver. It is all about defensive driving, and this doesn't mean driving slower than the speed limit.
It is avoiding distraction, eyes on all parts of the road front, rear and side. Thinking about the job at hand and who or what could be a danger to you.
Then being able to correctly respond to those dangers.

Maximum is maximum. There is no safe margin above that maximum weight.

And weight is based on the maximum limits of the component with the least weight limit.

Manufacturer would love to have the highest limits. If they could rate a truck higher. They would.

There are still those attempting to justify their position that under the mfg's specs is safer and those at the mfg's specs are intentionally playing Russian roulette with their family. The argument about emergency situations lose sight of what really matters (what is under your hat) is what will get you out of those situations. Stating someone is risking their family using the vehicle as intended is no different than saying you are unpatriotic because you are a democrat.

mich800 wrote:
saying you are unpatriotic because you are a democrat.

This is a whole different argument... but I might support your statement...:)

N-Trouble wrote:
I don't, and would never trust one to my families life. Have driven plenty of 1/2 ton trucks to know what they are capable of SAFELY towing. 1/2 tons have their place, but its not towing that kind of weight. IMO 8-9K lb is about the safe limit with a 1/2 ton truck. You can beef them up all you want but they just don't have the MASS to safely control a load like that in an emergency situation.

Not this part of the world.US Towing rates are downgraded considerably, for safety. You could do it, but not all that safely.You could do it with other vehicles , but same principle applies. I have seen Asian Pickups with over 4,000lb in the trays in Asia and they regularly do it, but Mountains and long descents..No.