Are You Buying All These Half-ton Claims?

monkey44 wrote:
QUOTE: "How far below? Monkey44 suggest that I stay around 1/2 the truck's payload."

NO! Monkey NEVER said that -- if you all would read the posts it would help.

Monkey said "A truck with half it's payload is safer than a truck maxed out at it's full payload." That's different than Monkey saying we should drive with half our payload.

I also never said "Drive at half the speed limit" as some one else claims.

You guys really need to read what is written, then take a minute to actually understand it, before you all jump on my case, or any other post. Half the time, these 'folks that argue" whip out PART of a statement, wiggle it around so it says something else, then use it to disagree with a post or support their own posts ...

the only thing Monkey ever stated was: If you drive a 1500/150 at it's maximum capacity, or drive a 2500/250 at half its capacity, the 2500/150 will be safer.
PERIOD>

I never said drive at half your payload -- but I'll add to that now, to clarify my meaning ... if you are carrying a maximum payload on a 1500/150, and switch that payload to a 2500/250, you will only be carrying half it's designed carry capacity (more or less) and therefore, you will be driving under safer conditions.

Anytime you run a truck at its maximum payload, you will stress that truck to a greater degree under emergency conditions ... because sliding, swishing, braking under emergency conditions will have a greater margin in a heavier duty truck with less payload - no matter what brand or model you drive ...

So, what that means: You can drive a 1500/150 under maximum load, and probably drive safely if you choose that option. BUT if you take that same load, and put it on a 2500/250, you will be safer under any conditions, including emergencies. I choose the second option ...

That's all Monkey said, and Monkey is correct ... and Monkey only means the truck is SAFER under those HD conditions ... when we take "driver ability and skills, and even attitude" and lock it into the equation, that changes everything.

Or in other words, if I'm going to take a 75 mile trip in my airplane, I don't fuel up with only 75 miles worth of fuel. Safety margins are a very good idea.

buddyIam wrote:
With commercial operations such as refineries, power plants and manufacturing plants, they use a different type of rating. Operation speed is always set below what total output could actually be. For instance, if a refinery is rated a 100 barrels/hour output. It would actually have the capability to put out more barrels/hour. The closer you get to your max rating, the greater the probability of failure. They reduce the rating because actually running at max would reduce the amount of time between maintenance, and increase the probability of failures.

I don't think any of us want to see a failure on the road. Both for safety and inconvenience reasons.

Same applies to trucks...it's all about Duty Cycle. I have no reason to doubt the manufacturers rating for a truck, whether it's a 150, 2500, 3500, etc...The question is how often? A 150 with EB is designed to be a fun to drive general purpose pickup...and the few times per year that the owner needs to tow heavy, it can deliver the mail. But if you were, say, a landscaping contractor, and you used the 150 to tow a 12000 lb landscaping trailer every day to jobsites, the 150 won't last as long as a 350 would.

Ya-all might have an easier time convincing people they were unsafe if those 1/2-ton trucks were breaking down, flying off the road, and killing the wife and kids by the thousands. But it ain't happening that way. So it seems in real life, those life changing events aren't happening. Coulda, Shoulda, Woulda - but alas Not! I'm in much bigger danger by real life than these "Need a dually to tow a pop-up" parables.

CKNSLS wrote:
Generally one is new and starts out with a half ton truck and is learning about proper towing equipment and how to PROPERLY adjust a WD hitch. ITS ABOUT THE HITCH. Its about the RV dealer not setting up the hitch correctly the first time. To say a half ton truck is the issue is simplistic and quite frankly false.

Exactly. Someone who doesn't know how to drive, doesn't have the right equipment, isn't set up properly and has never towed before is crying because of all of that.

None of that means that the half ton is unsafe or overloaded or on the verge of breaking... it just means that the guy towing doesn't know what he is doing.

Now that he gets into his 3/4 ton truck, still with no experience, he falsely believes that he is safer and he can "relax" more. Its people like this that scare me. They drive faster, drive closer, drive distracted and drive with arrogance... but they still don't know what they are doing. The "solid platform" of a heavier truck masks whatever problems were there before. The trailer still has sway from the incorrectly set up WDH, but the driver doesn't feel it as much because of the heavier dog not getting wagged by the tail.

I can drive. I can tow. I know the limits of my tow vehicle, and I keep my weights below Toyota's stated threshold. My WDH is properly set up, I have sufficient tongue weight. I have E rated tires and my trailer brakes are properly adjusted. I tow safely and watch the car ahead of me and ahead of him. I try to drive in the right lane so I have the shoulder incase of an emergency. I always keep track of vehicles next to me and approaching from behind. I don't talk on the phone, don't eat while driving and try to limit any possible distractions while driving. My bride handles navigation and plans out our stops and next destinations. I have never had a close encounter, because I am aware.

Putting some idiot in a 3/4 or 1 ton with all the problems he had in his half ton doesn't make him safe. Having that same idiot yacking on his phone, not aware of the length of his rig, eating while driving, distracted, unaware of road conditions, etc etc is NOT safer.

rhagfo wrote:
So now we have a much lighter TV "Capable" of towing 12,200#. I noticed the other day, that my combination 2500 Ram and 32' 11,000# wet 5er, I have more weight on the TV tires than the 5er!!
Far less chance for the tail to wag the dog, when the dog has some stature!

I'm in that camp also and am amazed at all the funny looking Chihuahua dog TVs with those St. Bernard TT tails running around.

Larry

majorgator wrote:

I'm in the construction business and do A LOT of driving and hauling. The funny thing is (well, maybe not so funny) is that the only group of people that have consigned themselves to hauling heavy loads with smaller (ie half ton) trucks are the RV'ers. Hot shot drivers...NO. Car haulers...NO. Work trucks with cargo trailers...NO. Cattle/Livestock haulers...NO. Farmers...NO. Service trucks...NO. Small equipment haulers...NO. No other group of people consistently use small trucks for their hauling.

An interesting observation as I conclude this rant...nearly all the "1/2 ton defenders" on this thread and throughout the forum have a 1/2 ton truck in their sig line. Notably, of course, the same can be mostly said about the 3/4 and 1 ton truck guys too ;)

Agree 100%

Generally one is new and starts out with a half ton truck and is learning about proper towing equipment and how to PROPERLY adjust a WD hitch. ITS ABOUT THE HITCH. Its about the RV dealer not setting up the hitch correctly the first time. To say a half ton truck is the issue is simplistic and quite frankly false.

spoon059 wrote:

goducks10 wrote:
Which truck platform continuously posts about having issues with towing? 1/2 tons. That right there tells me that the mega tow ratings are ridiculous. And those posters aren't towing 11,000lbs, they're towing 6-8500lbs.

Sounds scientific enough to me... Guess all us "grocery getter" owners should rip off the tow hitches so we have enough weight capacity for another 2 bags of groceries...

What "issues" are you talking about?

Not saying everyone has issues, just saying type 'sway' in the search box and the majority of the post will be about 1/2 ton owners, trucks and SUV's. Out of all the post about trailer sway how many are from HD truck owners towing TT's? Hardly any.

CKNSLS wrote:

spud1957 wrote:

CKNSLS wrote:
You can't tow maximum ratings (generally) without going over payload anyway with a half ton. So these "mega claims" that all manufacturers make are a "moot point" IMHO.

That's not just a 1/2 ton issue, that's pretty well an issue with all 3/4 ton diesels and some 1 tons.

I'll bet there are more 3/4 ton diesels towing 5th trailers resulting in them be over their GVWR than there are 1/2 tons.

Didn't think of that...but your probably right!

I would say for sure that is true, but I would say those 3/4 tons towing over the GVWR are still within axle and tire ratings. Loaded I have as much tire rating on the REAR axle than most 1/2 tons do empty. YES I am over my GVWR!

goducks10 wrote:
Which truck platform continuously posts about having issues with towing? 1/2 tons. That right there tells me that the mega tow ratings are ridiculous. And those posters aren't towing 11,000lbs, they're towing 6-8500lbs.

Closer to the money. Just back from New Zealand, where I saw several US Pickups. What was like seeing a "UFO" was a 2009 F150 actually towing a load. He was struggling, but towed a trailer with two small wool bales and a small digger