Assessing water damage in wooden camper

Yes, I am so currently occupied I am not working Lil' Queeny right now - must wait until later in summer or perhaps another winter.

Regarding tiedowns - since you are ready, I'll spill my beans. Here's my plan.

All four corners have interior access. In my case, only the right front is "in the room" (dinette) the others are buried in cabinetry. In cabinetry locations, regular bolts and nuts are ok. In the dinette corner I plan to use a captured nut, welded flush into a bracket (so as NOT to dig into your butt when sitting at the dinette).

All four exterior corners receive a normal style "angle" bracket. Basic normal length (16" I think) and wide enough on sides and on back/front walls to extend beyond structure framing to allow a bolt pass through into an interior bracket, but not so wide as to interfere with water fill, marker reflectors, etc. You'll have to evaluate your own camper distances in these corners to position an exterior bracket. Aluminum angle will be used on mine and I have planned exterior accessories to accommodate the bracket sizes.

Keep in mind I am building a corner jack mount and tie-down combo. If you only need tie-downs, you might need to adapt the idea.

Now to the interior. Same idea, interior angle (alum or iron, probably iron for welding reasons). This bracket is sized to match up to the exterior bracket for through bolts and nuts.

But for tie-downs, onto this interior bracket is welded another angle iron (1.5") to fit around the previously mentioned 2x2. So vertical angle iron is upright and in corner of the interior wall, horizontal angle iron is wrapped around 2x2, ends of vertical and horizontal meet and are welded. New bracket is now an L shape.

Final step is to weld in a gusset. This gusset is a triangular piece of iron in the elbow of the L shape. Just maintains a 90 degree L shape.

The lower part of the L (horizontal) extends long enough forward (or back) from the inside corners to place a proper tiedown location. In my case it is only about 6" (so angle is 7.5" or so).

I got my 6" based on exactly locating my camper in the truck (in my mind) and finding a spot on the truck bed rail that was appropriate to proper tie-down angle for my tie-down product (I use the "frame-mounted" Happi-jacs because I dislike the "hang-lows" of the other brand - and mostly because my campers are light weight enough to do so).

Then a tie-down eye-bolt can drop from the camper framing through the bracket, the 2x2, the wing plywood, with another sandwiching below the wing (maybe a 3"x 3" x 1/4" alum plate"). And the dinette bracket then has captured nuts welded in both vertical and horizontal members on the correct side of the bracket to prevent damage to cushions, etc. and of course bolts are cut to proper length and ends are smoothed.

What this all does is connect the tie-down force to the camper full corner framing (wing, side-wall, back/front wall) with bolts and nuts instead of lag screws into framing). Same with a jack mount. AND places the tie-down not just in proper position front to rear, but extending out far enough on the left and right without adding leverage to destroy the wing by connecting to the Travel Queen under grid jack mount assembly.

Remember, tie-downs are snug, but not OVER tight. There's a science here! Gravity holds the camper in, Tie-downs just keep it from shifting. The truck bed must be allowed to flex some without flexing your camper apart. So depending on your truck, I'd use the "spring loaded" style in some form, not simply a traditional rigid turnbuckle design.

Don't forget to search for "camper magleby report".



Good luck!

Well, that is a huge relief!

I guess my main concern is future tie downs, which you've convinced me should not be done using the built in jacks,even though (or especially because) that's exactly how this camper was anchored to its 66 Dodge when we met it. However, because you don't seem to have posted that far into your rebuild (unless I missed it), I'm not clear where the tie downs are going to end up yet. :)

The most unnerving thing about this discovery is how it has impacted the horizontal wing plywood, exterior to the 2x4 that supports the pipes that recieve the jacks. The jtrim had very few solid anchor points on that edge. Never does the water damage reach that 2x4 but it comes within an inch. And this bit is really just serious water damage, not rot, but still, if that 2x4 is going to be part of the tie down system I worry about the horizontal wing plywood pulling away from it. Today it is still firmly attached, no give, but there is no longer 4 inches of solid plywood to the outside of it. Hope I'm describing that clearly.

Maybe what I'll do is brush out all the soft wood as you suggest and re-evaluate once I see what's left. I like the idea of reshaping it with epoxy to make it whole again.

It is good to hear that a patch is possible in this area, thank you for taking the time to look it over! If I can keep from tearing into that wing that's a huge win. :)

Any hints to the eventual tie down solution?

And yes, she does seem to be in great shape. We were very lucky! Sometimes though, I envy the permission that "less than great" shape gives for modifications like you've been able to make to Lil Queeny, she's going to offer the best of both worlds!

Littlest Birds, so glad to see you are getting (have been) into it. It looks in GREAT shape!

Let's talk about that rotted 2x2 which makes up the structural corner of the horizontal wing and the vertical wall (that rounds into the roof).

IMO that damage looks best to fix as a damaged area, not an entire wing replacement. In the left front of mine, the whole 2x2 was cut out to place the propane tank (which weight sat on the plywood alone and forced the wing down, allowing water entry.

To replace the whole 2x2 or wing plywood, I found EVERYTHING had to be removed. The camper box vertical and the wing plywood are fastened with screws and stables and glue Oh My!

I recommend one of two ways to fix.

1. Cut out a section of the 2x2 (maybe a foot max?). Clear the rot with the cut. Glue, staple, screw a same length chunk in place. Maybe primer the surfaces before assembly (to mitigate future water infiltration). Do something similar with the damaged plywood. Make a patch and bridge it above with more plywood (thin enough to not disrupt range insert). Nice tight repair with new wood but keep the main original pieces in place.

or

2. Dig and scrape and wire brush all the soft rot out of the pieces. Use some sort of home center wood rot stabilizer on the remaining parts. Add an epoxy (two part mix) wood filler substance to the dug out areas and smooth it. After dry, shave, file, sand, etc. and put on a second coat. Third if needed (until you get experienced the first and maybe second will look crappy). Once the "rebuilt" wood surface is done, lay down some protect-ant (like primer, paint), and fasten it all back together.

But don't take out the wing assembly unless you like the concrete floor look (like I had for weeks or months until I decided to put wood back in).

Oh and yeah, same replacement idea on the stringer and/or small portion of side wall paneling, bridged patch.

Thanks JoeChiOhki! We're all set with jacks, but the offer is greatly appreciated. We are still quite new to the camper scene, and although DH has a presence on several car sites, this is my first forum. I continue to be impressed by how helpful folks are. It is really encouraging!

Overhang wings are fairly easy to fix is the lumber above is still structurally sound.

I just had to do this on my Amerigo, which added an extra layer of fun because it has molded fiberglass areas that I can't remove.

A Fien oscillating cutter is your friend in tight spaces and a kreg jig for 2-by lumber is a great friend in putting it back together again.

Had my whole wing rebuilt in 2-3 days and now its 3x beefier than it was from factory.

Btw, I have two under-wing crank jacks that you could have for free, ya just got to come get them, they're no longer of any use as I've been reframing the camper to cover it to a standard corner jack style.

Agreed, Jimh425! That is definitely the spot with the deepest infiltration. The pictures actually look worse than what I see/feel when I jam the screw driver into all those dark spots.

Link to photo bucket album.

This looks to be the worse part.

Well, we finally got our Travel Queen onto the floor of the garage sometime after Christmas and started pulling the windows,roof vents and J-trim. At the very least we knew we'd be refreshing the butyl tape as part of "regular maintenance".



After thousands of screws and pounds of putty, every piece and part removed revealed bright, yellow dry wood and fears were abating, until I got to the driver's side wing where about 10% of the bottom edge screws seemed to spin freely without resistance.

Sure enough, the skin came up yesterday and here is what we found:



Looks like there might be a problem!!

The length of rot is about 2.5ft centered around the 110v shore power plug, which is nearly the center point of my Travel Queen's box (10ft, model 110). No real evidence that the water intrusion came from the roof, though there is a stove vent above this location.

Even on more vigilant inspection there was no evidence of this issue from inside the camper. All the wood is solid.

Here is the kitchen sink cabinet which is slightly to the rear of the stove cavity (which is at the center of the leak). Some water staining from leaky trap, but 100% solid wood.



Today I took out the stove for more complete look and found a peanut Clementine;) (anyone remember that song?) and evidence of water staining, but no soft wood...except, drat...the 2x2 cleat in the back, which is kind of crumbly on the outside, is a little soft on top just under the outlet for the 110v wire.



Until the skin came up, the failing wood was completely concealed from the outside by a thin board that was glued/screwed to the underneath of the wing (pictured below still in place). The skin and Jtrim were placed over the board, creating the illusion of solid surface.








The worst of the rot is like burnt paper and crumbles at the touch. However, it seems largely confined to:

• The first stringer-- most impacted
• 4 linear inches of the exterior side of the 2x2 cleat at the back of the cabinet (pictured in undersink and stove cavity pics above)
• 2 or 3 inches of the exterior edge of the cabinet floor that extends out to the skin.

Of course I will have to replace the lowest stringer on this side.

And I'm prepared (or rather, trying to convince myself that I'm prepared) to remove and rebuild the whole wing assemblage in order to ensure my camper doesn't one day roll right off the truck as I careen around a glorious and remote mountain bend, but...

Question 1: Is that really necessary? Is there patching or splicing that can be done and still maintain structural integrity?(desperate plea, I know)

Question 2: If it is necessary, can I pull this wing assemblage without taking out the entire cabinet and counter top? My understanding (per Dave Pete 1968 Travel Queen Resto Mod - 3. Structure and New Wood) is that the dark plywood bottom half of these counters are to be considered "as-one" with top horizontal piece of the wing (bottom of the under counter cabinet) that is compromised.









Please note, that's not lazy talking, that's self-doubt around ever getting it back together again looking "finished".

That said, my priority is getting this right (i.e. safe) the first time, so if remove the counter and cabinetry I must, remove it I will.

Any thoughts, tips, advise are greatly appreciated!

Thanks All! I read through all of your feedback on my way home from work Friday, and have been detailing the inside of the travel queen ever since.

The fair warning and encouragement is awesome!

Dave Pete,

Thanks for the detailed answers.

Dave Pete wrote:
The main reasons we didn't use ours as is, and went with a complete rebuild are because...

1) I'm anal, or as I prefer to say, "particular"

Ha! I'm in agreement that you are "particular" :) and am so pleased that you are, as the veritable "Haynes Manual" you've created on this forum is the safety net I cling to in case a re-build (full or partial) should ever prove necessary.

Given the collective assessment here, and my time spent going over the interior over the past few days, I will avoid the witch hunt for as long as possible. Yesterday, a few more dark spots were found in the kitchen cabinets, but still nothing that would necessarily question the structural integrity.

Keeping the nails in place is brilliant and certainly adds to the charm. Its a relief to hear the dark spots don't necessarily mean complete failure of the envelope.

Having read your descriptions of the frame elsewhere, my overall impression regarding Travel Queen construction is that the whole is greater than the sum of the parts. For that reason I'm not willing to remove a single screw until we get the camper safely on the ground. I did take off a plastic paper towel holder ...hope its safe :).

However, as soon as we land the camper, the exterior clean and seal will begin. The windows, vents and j-trim will be removed with hope of reusing all. However, the idea of using wider j-trim is taking hold pretty quickly.

Once the trim is off, that's the point when Pandora will no longer be able to resist looking under the siding, so there may yet be more on this subject later. :)

Thanks again everyone! I'm definitely in over my head AND still having a good time because I know where to find the answers. :)

I wanted to respond again in more specific answer to your specific questions.

Littlest Birds wrote:
I've read many places in this forum to run from water damage, so now that thorough investigations are postponed, maybe folks can help satisfy my curiosity around how much damage might lurk behind this pretty birch paneling.

The time to run is before the purchase. After the purchase you play the hand you were dealt. I might add, "water damage" is quite a subjective phrase in stick-built campers. In your case, the water damage we see is mostly visual water stains on the birch paneling. Much of the mark would sand out (be careful, it's a pretty thin veneer). In my case, choosing a darker color stain hid much of my water marks, and we are lightening the interior in other ways. Of course we like our darker, cozy look to begin with. But as other say, press to locate soft areas. Then there may or may not be reason to investigate further. Unless there are obvious structural problem spots, fix the interior (and exterior) cosmetics and seal the exterior until the next deeper fix is required. The seams where the exterior sheet metal meet each other could be peeled back a little so as to fasten them down securely and then refasten with good seal, the aluminum trim pieces. I haven't yet done that part on mine and I saved all the trim, but it's pretty narrow and it's likely I'll be re-using some, but using a wider newer style in many places just to try and get a better weather seal. You might consider that as you check over exterior sealing. Same on the windows, vents and other holes in the wall. I recommend you stay away from silicone. I suggest fasten down materials good first, apply a quality RV tape putty over the joint and screw down the trim, then a small bead of quality flexible exterior siding caulking along the top edge of the trim portions right where it meets the sheet metal. Maybe another similar bead on the bottom edge of the trim when needed (like the trim on the cab-over nose that drives at high speed into the face of a storm).

Littlest Birds wrote:
Please note that the camper smells wonderful! No hint of dampness, mold, mildew or rodent. None of the wood in the corners, floors or elsewhere has any give to it at all.

However, there are some surface water stains under the aluminum windows and bleeding out from the front vent and there are a few dark spots up front and worst of all there is one dry mildew stained area behind the bench cushions in the dining area.

The back passenger side (where the mildew stain is) did not leak on the rainy drive home and may be a result of this successfully (??) repaired hole in the roof.

The only other dark areas are in the front, where I did find water after the trip, but the the front vent was flapping in the breeze the whole way:

And are these dark nail holes just age, or nightmare mold squeezing in from between the skin and frame?

Those are just water marks and wood staining from the iron screw. My screws were a dark bronze finish, but many had gotten to the rust stage (interior condensation or even water vapor getting from interior through the wood that breathes, into the wall cavity and then condensing on the inside surface of the sheet metal, then running down the inside of the metal until finding a new liquid water path at a nail to wet the wood hole where the nail goes through). I found them almost impossible to remove without damage to the paneling so just finished them into the whole as part of the patina!

Littlest Birds wrote:
There is really nothing that would have convinced us not to bring this rig home, but now its time to face reality. Two questions for the forum:

1) On a scale of 1 to 10 (10 being, pull the skin immediately and start over) how much damage do these water stains suggest we might find?

2) How best to begin the investigation without diving into a complete tear down.

All insights welcome!

1) I'd give you a 2 on the scale of 1-10 based just on visuals and your description. No offensive odors? No wood rot style soft spots? Pictures indicating interior condensation (people living) and some leakage of exterior water through things like windows, vents, or edge seams?

2) Start with worst area and move toward lessening areas of concern. Make sure exterior portions are sealed, especially before winter hits. Move inside once exterior is sealed up and make plans like where you want things, modification or keeping original. Get the systems up and running and verified functional. Cleanup and finish small areas of improvement (break the job into rooms perhaps). Then take it out and use it to fine tune your decision making on other improvements.

In essence, don't look to discover damage because you will discover it. But that's all relative. I found that the way they are built gives strength of structure balanced though many small tie-ins: staples, screws, nails, plus sheet material (paneling, sheet-metal). So areas that are damaged may well STAY supported sufficiently for many more years.

The main reasons we didn't use ours as is, and went with a complete rebuild are because...

1) I'm anal, or as I prefer to say, "particular"
2) The small camper size is what we wanted, but not the systems as is. So ours was to significantly increase systems capability as well as a showpiece style of living.