Banks auto-mind programmer

Been lots of tuner questions of late and was holding back till this one
and Turtles comments...which almost had me spit my coffee all over the
keyboard... :B

So think it's time to touch on the why and how of all this

The tuner has become yet another fashion statement crowd 'gotta have' item

Boils down to this: increasing the PSI on the piston tops

That is all there is to it, but the devils details is in how to attain
that and keep EPA happy. It is no longer just a Calif registered vehicle
that must toe that line, but 50 state requirement. Plus the government
has made it a federal issue and also say that in some areas...they do
NOT check...often



With current design/architecture of our ICE's, the main way is to
increase the combustion temps. As ICE's work by capturing the rapidly
expanding gases inside a closed container (the cylinder...head area,
cylinder walls and the moving piston top)

Then the complexities of that...meaning that the 'moving piston' will
see reduced PSI as it move away from TDC and will it continue to have
enough PSI to continue to push on the crank. There is much just in this
area of physics

Then the exhaust stroke. Some/most designs use or take advantage of
a continued burn to push out the gases into the exhaust port married
with the piston reversing directions to push the gases out. Part of
this is called 'scavenging'. Velocity and inertia are the key components,
plus more





Some other attributes that tuners touch on to acheive higher PSI's
on the piston tops...



Timing is the main one, even diesels (spark before TDC on a gasser
and on a diesel, the squirt before TDC)



So the piston is moving up on it's compression stroke will have the
above BEFORE TDC. So it is now compressing the gases that are also
now expanding at a fast rate. This will increase the PSI on the piston
tops at TDC, which will have a GREATER push on the piston tops as it
transitions to moving down (pushing on the crank)

BUT...there are issues with pre-ignition on gassers. Think explosion
as a 'normal' gasoline ignition is a 'burn' vs pre-ignition which is
an explosion.

Explosion...think of hitting the top of the piston with a hammer vs
pushing on it with your hand...a very fast hand...but no where near
the speed of an explosion

This is why most tuners set at their highest power gains requires use
of higher octane gasoline. Octane is the measure of the fuel (gas)
resistance or speed to ignite



Longevity is yet another consideration. With higher PSI's comes higher
rates of wear. Currently, our ICE's do NOT self heal themselves and
the tolerances (gaps) increase.

This means that the 'seal' between the various openings will NOT hold
that PSI just on the piston tops, but allow it to bleed off. End result
is lower PSI all over inside the combustion chamber. Therefore less
PSI on the piston top...this opposite to the goal in all this


Much, much, much more to this, but just touching on these in hopes
folks considering tuners will understand



As for warrant and law normally referenced as the basis for claiming
warranty...yes, it was enacted to help the consumer against fraudulent
denials from the OEMs, but there is fairness involved...that is the
OEM has the right to deny if you changed the specification of their
product.

Increasing HP is a change in their specification. That means higher
loads on components & sub-systems that is above their basis for
their MTBF



So tuners do these and much more to gain higher PSI's on the piston
tops...but...the OEMs have to meet SMOG regulations. They face
huge fines if they so not...even revoked license to sell products
until they meet those regulations.

Tuners 'fool' most of the system requirements (feed back) to the
ECU. So the ECU will NOT go into limp mode or some other mode

Plus the OEMs no longer have these feed back loops in volatile memory.
Meaning that it is now locked in memory, even with a power removal
cycle. They can read what the ECU has been using for it's sensory
feedbacks.

This is where they can and do deny warranty...I would if it was
my product and my consumer came in to lie (fraud) that they messed
with my product to then claim warranty

4x4ord wrote:

Turtle n Peeps wrote:

Fuel quantity kills off the economy. To add power you need to add fuel. So if you use that power you will use more fuel. IOW's a 200 HP diesel will use about twice the fuel as a 100 HP diesel. So if you only had 375 HP and use all that power to pull a hill at 40 MPH and then you add a tuner to give you 450 HP and you now go up the same hill at 55 MPH you will use a LOT more fuel. You have to because you just added 75 HP worth of fuel.

If you can get up the hill in 65 seconds using 450 hp instead of 90 seconds using 375 hp. The higher horsepower engine would almost certainly be saving you fuel going up the hill.

ROTFLMAO; and if I tow at 120 MPH instead of 60 MPH I get to where I'm going in half the time and save a bunch of fuel too! That is the logic you are using. LOL :R

Funny how the fleets are turning down the HP of big rigs to save fuel. You need to tell them they are doing it all wrong! They need to turn it up to save fuel. :S

Turtle n Peeps wrote:

Fuel quantity kills off the economy. To add power you need to add fuel. So if you use that power you will use more fuel. IOW's a 200 HP diesel will use about twice the fuel as a 100 HP diesel. So if you only had 375 HP and use all that power to pull a hill at 40 MPH and then you add a tuner to give you 450 HP and you now go up the same hill at 55 MPH you will use a LOT more fuel. You have to because you just added 75 HP worth of fuel.

If you can get up the hill in 65 seconds using 450 hp instead of 90 seconds using 375 hp. The higher horsepower engine would almost certainly be saving you fuel going up the hill.

Ram doesn't have to prove anything. They will void your warranty if they discover a tuner. Key word is discover. Small to medium claims will fly under the radar, but any heavy engine repair, replacement, or trans issue will require mapping the PCM history and sending it in prior to warranty authorization. Some tuners state that they are undetectable, so the question is are they smarter than the Cummins and Chrysler company engineers that built the truck. Pretty big gamble if you ask me until the warranty is over or you just don't care and can afford a huge repair. The other danger is a dealer with an attitude due to your attitude that reports you.

tinner12002 wrote:

Turtle n Peeps wrote:
Since nobody answered your question I'll give it a try by asking a few of my own.

What are your goals with a programmer? What do you want to achieve?

Maybe a slight bit more power/economy...nothing high HP. I had talked to my local mech at Ram dealer and he said another customer had one and was very pleased with the economy and the added power/economy for towing and they aren't too expensive. As for warranty issues, he said chyr would have to prove the programmer directly caused whatever failure if something happened.

IB pretty much answered your question.
To add to it. Can a tuner give you economy? Well yes, sometimes.

A tuner plays with about 3 different major things. Injection timing fuel quantity and boost pressure.

Advancing injection timing will make your engine more efficient so you can pick up a "slight" bit of mileage if you drive your truck lightly.

Fuel quantity kills off the economy. To add power you need to add fuel. So if you use that power you will use more fuel. IOW's a 200 HP diesel will use about twice the fuel as a 100 HP diesel. So if you only had 375 HP and use all that power to pull a hill at 40 MPH and then you add a tuner to give you 450 HP and you now go up the same hill at 55 MPH you will use a LOT more fuel. You have to because you just added 75 HP worth of fuel.

Turbo boost does not really do much for or against fuel economy. It's just there to cool things off and keep things clean.

Let me caution you that the 6.7 is wound pretty tight. In other words it's pretty much at it's limit to make more power without beefing up other parts. Even the DPF is built to handle a certain amount of fuel. You raise that amount and bad things can happen.

As far as warrantee goes, IB is spot on. If you break something in the drive train they will just deny your repair. You will tell them they can't do that and they will tell you yes they can. You have a broken truck and they lose nothing. Take them to court? Good luck. Hope you have a long time and a lot of money. Even then you will lose because it says right in the OM a tuner will void warrantee.

In the end it's up to you whether its worth it to add a tuner.

I would add two things to the above.

1) As soon as you add a tune, you are risking your warranty. They have to prove nothing, they just stamp it denied. Then it becomes a battle.

2) Tuners do add plenty of power, but they DO NOT add any mpg. I have used 3 (Edge, Hypertech, and Superchips) and tracked my mpg closely. The tuners DO tell you (by way of your in cab mpg display) that you are getting better mpg, but they actually don't when you calculate out distance driven by fuel used.

Turtle n Peeps wrote:
Since nobody answered your question I'll give it a try by asking a few of my own.

What are your goals with a programmer? What do you want to achieve?

Maybe a slight bit more power/economy...nothing high HP. I had talked to my local mech at Ram dealer and he said another customer had one and was very pleased with the economy and the added power/economy for towing and they aren't too expensive. As for warranty issues, he said chyr would have to prove the programmer directly caused whatever failure if something happened.

I had a programmer on my 2007 5.9L Cummins and really enjoyed it. It was a Hypertech.

Since nobody answered your question I'll give it a try by asking a few of my own.

What are your goals with a programmer? What do you want to achieve?