Battle Born LiFePo Batteries

mike/kellie wrote:

skipro3 wrote:
****EDIT****
Oh, HEY!
You are my host this weekend! Geez! Here I am smack talking ya about batteries and alternators and realize we'll all be together soon. I'll smack talk ya some more over a beer and around a campfire Friday night. Ha! See ya soon!

This could be discussed even sooner at margarita night Thursday. I'll bring jumper cables just in case.

OHHHHHHH boy!

Lots to be considered in this discussion eh?

Running your fridge on 12vdc if it has the feature and you use it is 25+ amps.
All your lights on going down the road... 15-20 amps, maybe more...
AC, and fans...= Guess!

Can not wait for this round the table discussion.

Those of you who are not going to the rally stay out of this discussion!

Hahahahaaaa, joking of course!

Jim

skipro3 wrote:
So as long as the conventional batteries are probably going to be abused, the Li's make sense.

Huh?

Kayteg1 wrote:

jimh425 wrote:
Wow, on sale at $949 per 10AH 12V battery. Cool, I guess.

It is 100AH, but heck, full 3 years warranty.

10AH would be a small battery. ;)

Just checked the link, it does not say temperature range. It just says it has a low and high temp cut off. Now that would be bad; a cold morning and no battery! At least with the motorcycle, I could generate heat though the battery with a headlight load so it would warm up enough to crank over the engine.

I was really hoping Wayne would make the camping trip this weekend. He lived in his Bigfoot 4 days a week, working out of town, for years. He swears his single 12 volt AGM with 50watt panel was more than enough. This was in foggy San Quentin to boot!

I have a Blue Seas, battery isolator that allows my truck's alternator to charge my camper batteries once the truck batteries are at or above a certain voltage. Also, it allows my camper (meaning solar or AC mains charger) to charge my truck batteries once the camper batteries are at or above a certain voltage. Cool! I installed a digital display in the camper to show me the truck's battery voltage next to the charge controller. I can view both camper and truck battery voltages and actually see the point when they isolate or are joined via the Blue Sea.
I have all the documentation on this stuff in the camper, so we can review it. BigfootFord, AKA Jim, is a electronic mad scientist and can 'splan the technicals in layman terms. I think he's presenting as well during the trip, so there is that!

Regarding batteries and temperatures; I've found that as long as I could keep the batteries from actually freezing, they would function just fine. This was in the microwave repeater stations on mountain tops I maintained in my working career. While I'm sure efficiencies were reduced during such cold weather, it didn't actually harm any or reduce their life. The biggest problem I've ever had with storage batteries is vibration. The cases fatigue and crack, leaking out what little acid a AGM has onto the steel racking and causing smoke, tripping the alarms. This was in hydro electric power houses. Lots of vibration even though they are nearly solid concrete and steel.

Li batteries do not like cold. I proved this with my motorcycle battery while camping. On a very cold morning, around 14 degrees, the motorcycle would not start. However, I ran my headlight for several minutes, the current through the battery warming it up enough that it would then crank. I'll have to check your link again about minimum temperatures to see how they perform in cold weather.

2oldman wrote:

skipro3 wrote:
I think it's a waste of money to go with Li batteries.

Over the long term, maybe not, but if your wallet isn't too fat, I can see why you'd say that. It's nice to be able to run them down to 20% soc and not worry about damage. Or water. Or corrosion.

So as long as the conventional batteries are probably going to be abused, the Li's make sense.

I've got a Li in a motorcycle. Mostly just to see what all the hoopla is about but also for longer cranking in case I need it out on the trails. It was then I discovered the sneaky way they are rated. A 10ah rated Li isn't 10ah. It can handle a load like a 10ah because it can handle just about a dead short without damage. Meaning it has the cranking capacity for a short while. Not what a RV battery is really designed for. The lighter weight is because the actual cells are smaller, despite what ever case they are in. I discovered I could upsize my motorcycle battery to a size or two larger. Here's what I bought;
https://www.amazon.com/Lithium-Phosphate-240CCA-Replaces-YTZ14S/dp/B00XWYF40C/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1524610751&sr=8-3&keywords=battery+tender+lithium+battery

Notice on the battery it states a Pb Eq 10-14ah. NOt that it IS 10 to 14ah, but the equivalent. What the heck does THAT mean? The description says; "Specifications: Voltage: 12 Volt; Cold Cranking Amps: 240; Lead-Acid Replacement Range: 10-14(Ah); Operating temperature: 0 - 140 Degree (Fahrenheit); Max Charge Rate: 10 Ampere "

Hmmm,,, a lead acid replacement range. Not the actual ah capacity, but the capacity if compared to a lead acid you want to replace. No bueno!

skipro3 wrote:

adamis wrote:
About every six months I check to see what is out there for batteries as I really want to replace my 2 80AH Lifeline 6v in series that are wired up in the bed of the truck. Recently just noticed this as one possible option and the price isn't that far off.

https://battlebornbatteries.com/shop/12v-lifepo4-deep-cycle-battery/

Seeing as how these batteries are able to take a charge so much faster, I'm wondering if it is possible to eliminate the generator entirely and charge straight from truck? I already have an after market 80 amp alternator installed from the previous owner. Taking out my genset and batteries could free up 300 to 400 lbs I'm thinking.

Anyone else looking at these?

"Price isn't that far off."
WHAT??!! Nearly a grand for one (1) 100Ah battery. That 10 times what I pay for one at Costco.

"I have an aftermarket 80 amp alternator"
That is not a hefty alternator. Mine is factory optioned with 220 amps plus there's an option for a second alternator for 440 amps total. (I didn't go with that) The standard alternator is 180 amps I think. I didn't think they even made alternators as tiny as 80 amps any more. Not aftermarket anyways and not for a truck.

Unless there is a really compelling reason to loose 160 pounds (2 batteries at 60lbs each and a 1000 watt genny at 40 pounds) an replace it with 2 batteries at 30 pounds each and a REAL alternator at 20 pounds (total of 80 pounds) net weight lost of 80 pounds, I think it's a waste of money to go with Li batteries.

Net difference in weight 80 pounds. Equivalent to 10 gallons of water. Can you just not fill your fresh water to full before departing and fill once on site?

****EDIT****
Oh, HEY!
You are my host this weekend! Geez! Here I am smack talking ya about batteries and alternators and realize we'll all be together soon. I'll smack talk ya some more over a beer and around a campfire Friday night. Ha! See ya soon!

Lol... no worries. I didn't have all of my numbers quite right. My alternator is 190 amps, not 80 amps. I have two Lifeline 6v AGM batteries that weight 90 lbs each. My Generator as best as I can find on the net weighs approximately 137 lbs. That puts me at 317 lbs in batteries and generator (that has 20 hours on it after 2 years). Quick Google search shows my Lifelines cost $375 each (might be better pricing elsewhere). That puts me at $750.00. Granted I could probably go with less expensive batteries, I inherited these with a previous camper and kept them around.

So for $950 and some change, I can shave off 163 lbs (I would keep the genset for the time being), have the same capacity and be able to bring the batteries inside where it is heated and be better maintained. I would also have some batteries that I think I could charge much faster with my alternator on the truck with the right wiring. In my experience trying to charge via the generator is a bit of a lost cause, it just takes too long and I'm not willing to put the hours on my generator for it.

I currently only have a 20w solar panel and to be honest, though I know I could upgrade that significantly, it just doesn't suit my use profile to go that route. I'm typically on the road every couple of days and I've found my capacity of 100AH is fine the time in camp. I just can't get the AGMs to top off on my travel days unless I connect to shore power for the night. When I spend a day on the road going to the next destination it would be nice to be able to completely charge my batteries in a couple of hours from the truck.

Anyway, the bank account tells me I have to wait a few months longer as it is. Hopefully these LiFePos will come down even more by then.

$949 each.

skipro3 wrote:
I think it's a waste of money to go with Li batteries.

Over the long term, maybe not, but if your wallet isn't too fat, I can see why you'd say that. It's nice to be able to run them down to 20% soc and not worry about damage. Or water. Or corrosion.

skipro3 wrote:
****EDIT****
Oh, HEY!
You are my host this weekend! Geez! Here I am smack talking ya about batteries and alternators and realize we'll all be together soon. I'll smack talk ya some more over a beer and around a campfire Friday night. Ha! See ya soon!

This could be discussed even sooner at margarita night Thursday. I'll bring jumper cables just in case.