California CVRA decal question

BigToe,

I understand what you are saying. I clearly understand what Unladen weight is and what GVWR is. Believe me, I’m not trying to defend the Ford dealer in any way. I’m just trying to do the right thing in regards to registering my truck.

It is my understanding based on several documents that the classification of a commercial vehicle is not only based on Unladen weight, but also the GVWR of the vehicle (both of these items).

One of the several documents I have is “Declaration of Gross Vehicle Weight (GVW)/Combine Gross Vehicle Weight (CGW)” Form REG 4008. Clearly in the first paragraph it states which pickup trucks are excluded from having to fill out this form. That is “Pickup trucks with no body type modifications (e.g., utility bed added, stake, etc.) and an unladen weight under 8,001 and a GVWR of 11,499 and under are excluded.”

My truck has no body type modifications, my trucks unladen weight is 7434, and my GVWR is 11,500. The “11,500” is my understanding why this form needed to be filled out.

Apparently my original DMV documentation from the dealer was kicked back to them, because REG 4008 was not included. There is no getting around the GVWR, it is encoded in the VIN.

Please do me a favor and get a copy of this form “REG 4008” (Google is your friend) and advise me if I’m missing something or you now have a clearer understanding.

Again, I’m not defending anyone or anything, just trying to do the right thing.
Thanks

BigToe, I think you have it correct.

I am miffed by this entire experience, with about 10 years on RV.NET and over fifty years in California.

Wayne

tomve,

You've gotten skewered by your dealer.

We need a dictionary to get this all straight.

Unladen weight = U N L A D E N weight.

The key syllable is U N.

The Monroni (window sticker), the Federal Weight Certification Tag on the door jamb, the dealer invoice, the showroom brochure, the radio commercial, the superbowl TV ad... all tout your trucks GVWR of 11,500 lbs.

Let's break down the meaning of GVWR:

Gross Vehicle Weight RATING

The key word here is R A T I N G.

That is what Ford's advertising is all about. That is what Ford's liability is all about. That is what Ford's marketing comparison is all about. The is what the Ford's instruction as to capacity is all about. The gross vehicle weight RATING.

The 11,500 lb RATING is NOT the UNLADEN weight.

UNLADEN = EMPTY

RATING = FULL

You truck is NOT 11,500 lbs EMPTY is it?

Therefore, your pickup truck is not 11,500 lbs. UNLADEN.

A dually long bed version of your truck is about 8,200 lbs. I'm thinking your single rear wheel short bed is probably 7,700 lbs unladen, perhaps 7,900 lbs with all of the extra options and dog added in the back. The point is, your 11,500 lbs GVWR truck is ENGINEERED to be under 8,000 lbs UNLADEN by design.

You can fix this. Your dealer made a mistake using the GVWR. Dealers are to be trusted for one thing and one thing only... to separate you from your money. In all other things, their activities are NOT to be trusted.

And then you asked an admittedly puzzled police officer a question that he at first was perplexed about, and then he tried playing attorney in order to help you. He had the Vehicle Code book, but he needed a Dictionary.

There is a difference between Empty and Full. Between Unladed and "at rated capacity". The California law very clearly states UNLADEN, or EMPTY, weight.

So, get empty.

Empty your truck of all your tools, soda cans, and pretzels. Run it down to just a few gallons of fuel. Remove the spare tire if you are worried about it. Unbolt the rear seat and remove it if you are really worried about it. But you shouldn't have to. You don't need to get tricky or compromise your morals to fix this.

Just get thee down to a CERTIFIED WEIGHMASTER and have your UNLADEN truck weighed. In plain English... have your EMPTY truck weighed. You need that signed and sealed CERTIFIED weight certificat to take to the DMV and have your registration corrected.

Do this now, while the truck is new. It will save you grief in the long run, and allow you the flexibility to tow various weights without declaring each weight. Under the CVRA, if you are now declaring 20K because you have an 8,500 lb trailer and you are adding your so called "11,500" truck, and mid year you pick up a brand new 14,500 lb. fiver, and get pulled over because some random CHP who passed math in high school saw your 20K CVRA fender sticker and knows what a 36 foot fivers weigh, you've just got a ticket for $2,500, because towing ANY amount of weight over your declared weight nets a statutory fine of the registration fees for the maximum weight, which is 80,000 lbs. You don't want CVRA. You want PICK_UP. And your SRW short bed is a pick up, period.

Look in the yellow pages. Look on the internet. A CERTIFIED WEIGHMASTER is generally available at PUBLIC SCALES in every county in California. At public scales, you can do a drive by weight check for free. You will have to pay a small fee for the certification. Hie thee down to a certified scale, and hop out of the truck when they weigh you. Stand on the curb above the platform.

Bring that certified weight certificate to the DMV. Or better yet, bring it to the finance office of the dealer who extricated the money out of your wallet and have them fix their goof.

Hand them a dictionary with your weight certificate. Put a post it note in the U pages for UNLADEN, and under the R pages for RATING. And then send a letter to Ford that will put a dent in their Blue Oval RATING. That will teach them what Rating means. And it will EMPTY some brownie (or Bluey) points from their customer service status.

Man what they did to you ticks me off.

iwon415 wrote:
I'm always amazed when people go the extra distance to make takes and fees for themselves. Sounds like even the CHP officer had his own opinion...

I'm not exactly sure what you mean here. But, if you are implying I went the "extra distance" to increase my fees, you've got it backwards. For I had already paid the higher fees.

I'm always amazed when people go the extra distance to make takes and fees for themselves. Sounds like even the CHP officer had his own opinion...

I'm sure he said to take those stickers and throw them in the trash, off the record of course.

Buzzcut1 wrote:
glad my advice was of help

thank-you, it was!

glad my advice was of help

Long read...

So, here’s the latest information I have. I visited the CHP Field office in Redwood City, CA., with my F350 and talked to one of the Commercial Vehicle Inspection Officers. At first he was puzzled as to why I received the CVRA decals and thought there was a clerical/registration error made.

He went out to inspect my truck to confirm it was not a commercial truck (for hire) and it was privately owned (not for hire), and that it was what I was saying it was.

He then reviewed my registration and checked some regulations in a thick book. The officer discovered the “Unladen/G/CGW” section on the registration was declared to be 10,001-15,000lbs., based on Form “Reg. 4008”. “Declaration of Gross Vehicle Weight (GVW)/Combined Gross Vehicle Weight (CGW)” filled out by the dealership for the vehicle registration. This is because my truck is rated at 11,500lbs GVWR and falls within the above mentioned range. Clearly stated on the window sticker and on the label on driver’s side door jam. On the declaration form it states what is excluded (as far as pick-up trucks is concerned), and that is an Unladen weight under 8,001lbs, and a GVWR of 11,499lbs and under. Because my truck is at 11,500lbs, I’m going through this exercise. (Side note my 2006 F350, which I traded in, was rated at 11,400lbs GVWR and is the reason I didn’t have to deal with this before.)

Keep in mind all this has nothing to do with whether your truck is a commercial vehicle (for hire) or privately owned (not for hire). It is solely based on Unladen weight and GVWR. It most definitely is not brand specific.

Depending on what options you have on your F350 (2011-2013, not sure about other model years) will determine if you are under or over the 11500 GVWR. I don’t understand why you don’t see more pick-up trucks displaying the CVRA decals here in California. For those of you that have newer F450's, which are over 11500 GVWR, I’m surprised no one has chimed in. Or maybe you know something I don’t!

So now I will deal with additional registration fees, possibly additional insurance rates, and most concerning, displaying the CVRA decal on the doors of my new 2013, F350 Lariat. The officer spoke to me “off the record” regarding the decals and I will choose to keep that information to myself.

All this is FYI. It is based solely on my conversation with one CHP officer.

I have seen trucks with just hand written numbers or hardware store numbers on them.

It could be the dealer's person who does their DMV stuff simply made a mistake and registered the truck incorrectly.

In all the years I have been on RV.NET, I think this is the first time the CVRA issue has come up.