Car and Driver octane test

Bionic Man wrote:

ShinerBock wrote:
Ford tuned the Ecoboost to 87 for its advertised power levels, and gives you the option to run 91/93 if you want the added performance.

That is something I did not know. Thanks for taking the time to put together a thoughtful response. If I end up pulling the trigger on the Expedition I am considering, I will likely continue to run premium just as I have in the Denali.

You are welcome to run whatever fuel you want and are willing to pay for. What got me riled up was that I am happy with the performance of the engine with 87 octane fuel and shared some performance data a few months ago using that fuel. A few people here had a meltdown that I refuse to pay $0.80/gal extra for power that I don't need and wouldn't leave me alone about it. They also refused to pay for any fuel, they just wanted to complain about my test methods and made reading my test reports very difficult by filling the thread with their complaints.

I don't want that using this report to vindicate their position when in reality Car and Driver tested a different engine than I did.

ShinerBock wrote:
Ford tuned the Ecoboost to 87 for its advertised power levels, and gives you the option to run 91/93 if you want the added performance.

That is something I did not know. Thanks for taking the time to put together a thoughtful response. If I end up pulling the trigger on the Expedition I am considering, I will likely continue to run premium just as I have in the Denali.

Yes, I don't think you understand. Ford recommends premium if you want more horsepower because it is a multi octane engine(which not all engines are). It is no different than dual fuel engines that have lower power numbers on gasoline and higher power numbers on E85. The engine can switch to either due to its ability to adjust timing based on knock. Most people with dual fuel vehicles don't run E85 even though they get added horsepower and E85 is cheaper because your fuel mileage is considerably less and there is not much benefit for the added power. The same is true for a multi octane engine.

Another reason why many Ecoboost owners may not run premium is because the Ecoboost has plenty of power and has no issues towing even 10k up even 7% grades at the rated speed limit on regular fuel so another 20 hp is really not needed. Ford designed and tuned the Ecoboost to 87 for its advertised power levels, and gives you the option to run 91/93 if you want the added performance.

My wife's Infiniti SUV requires premium and so did did her MB before that. However, if you chose to use 87, then the advertised power numbers would be reduced. These engines, like your vehicles, are mainly tuned and designed for 91/93 because their advertised power levels is based on premium fuel, but can run 87 with lower than advertised power levels. In order to be able to advertise a certain SAE tested power output, you have to recommend the fuel those power levels are made from. You cannot advertise power levels on 91/93 octane, and then recommend 87 for the vehicle. If you do, then you have to say that the power levels or on premium in every advertisement.

I will also say that the customer base for my wife's and your vehicles are completely different than an F150 owner especially if it is a fleet. Luxury SUV/car owners are more inclined to pay for premium and manufacturers want to advertise the greatest amount of power possible in these vehicles. Regular F150 owners are not as inclined to pay for premium. This is probably why Ford started offering the HO Ecoboost that requires premium fuel in the luxurious Limited models only.

ShinerBock wrote:

Bionic Man wrote:
So, did Ford change their recommendation in the owners manual away from premium fuel?

They never recommended premium for the standard output Ecoboost unless you wanted the added performance output which is only noticed under high loads. They had the same recommendation for all their engines that could alter their power output based on the octane rating of the fuel like the 5.0L and 6.2L.

Some people take this recommendation for added performance as a must when towing because the manual states that the added performance will mostly be felt when towing(i.e. high load). This is true because you aren't really going to nice an extra 20 hp unless you go wide open throttle. You can tow with the Ecoboost on regular fuel, but you want have the added hp.

Its not important enough for me to go back through all the users manuals, but it is a fact that Ford recommended (maybe still do) premium for the best performance. Not sure why anyone would not want the best performance, but whatever.

It is amusing to see people get so defensive when that simple observation is made. Personally, I don't understand it. My last three gas vehicles all recommended, and received premium fuel - a Lexus SUV, my Cayman S and my Denali. It is not like Ford is alone with that recommendation. And there is no reason for people to get their knickers in a knot because of it.

Bionic Man wrote:
So, did Ford change their recommendation in the owners manual away from premium fuel?

Ford has never recommended premium for the base model Ecoboost engines engines but they have for the high output engines in the Raptor, Limited and Lincoln.

So have they changed, NO. Do they have various recommendations, YES.

See the bottom of the first page in the attachment. Standard Ecoboost on the left, HO version on the right:

2019 F150 specs

dodge guy wrote:
I can tell you my V-10 Excursion always ran better on 93 than it did on 87.

X2

The V-10 in my Bounder runs better on 89 or higher and gets better mpg..

Though I think the full Banks Power Pack System and 5 Star Tuning is why it likes the higher octane..

I can tell you my V-10 Excursion always ran better on 93 than it did on 87.

Bionic Man wrote:
So, did Ford change their recommendation in the owners manual away from premium fuel?

They never recommended premium for the standard output Ecoboost unless you wanted the added performance output which is only noticed under high loads. They had the same recommendation for all their engines that could alter their power output based on the octane rating of the fuel like the 5.0L and 6.2L.

Some people take this recommendation for added performance as a must when towing because the manual states that the added performance will mostly be felt when towing(i.e. high load). This is true because you aren't really going to nice an extra 20 hp unless you go wide open throttle. You can tow with the Ecoboost on regular fuel, but you want have the added hp.

Ford states in their manuals for the EB that it will run just fine on 87 octane. They 'recommend' the higher Octane 93 for towing or use in hot weather for 'best performance'. All depends on how and where you use it......I ran premium in mine 100% of the time because it was usually towing when it was on the road.

So, did Ford change their recommendation in the owners manual away from premium fuel?